Bad People
BBC Radio 5 Live
Murderers. Fraudsters. Internet trolls. This is a podcast about people who do terrible things, and the science of humanity’s dark side.Series producer: Louisa Field Artwork: Kingsley Nebechi Music: Matt Chandler Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Ailsa Strathie Dr Sarah Laurence Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.
125. The Secret History of the Clubcard
How one of the first Tesco Clubcards was used to pay off a blackmailer threatening to poison frozen food. And how that Clubcard was used to catch him.Presented by journalist and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw.Producer: Ciaran Tracey with help from James Shield Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioner: Izzy Lee-PoultonBad People is a
Dec 26, 2024 • 39:45
124. Flashers: The case of Wayne Couzens
Former Metropolitan Police officer, Wayne Couzens, kidnapped, raped and murdered Sarah Everard, in March, 2021.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss the findings of The Angiolini Inquiry, and how the crime of indecent exposure may indicate a potential trajectory towards even more serious sexual and violent offending.Producer: Lorna Reader Executive Producers: Innes Bowen and Joe Kent Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assist
Dec 19, 2024 • 43:48
123. My ex tried to have me killed
Rob Parkes’ ex-wife lied about him being a drug dealer and a gang member. Then she tried to hire a hitman to have him killed.Rob tells his remarkable story of abuse, narrow escapes and survival.Presented by journalist and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw.Producers: James Shield and Danita McIntyre Executive Producers: Joe Kent and Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assist
Dec 12, 2024 • 35:20
122. Trust Me I'm a Doctor
Ian Patterson was a sought after breast surgeon and patron of a charity supporting people with cancer, now he’s in prison.He was sentenced to 20 years in 2017 for carrying out unnecessary and unapproved procedures.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss the psychology of medical encounters and the prevalence of narcissism amongst surgeons.Producer: Rachel Oakes Executive Producers: Innes Bowen and Joe Kent Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Assistant Commissione
Dec 5, 2024 • 38:40
121. Understanding Violence: Bad People x The Reith Lectures
Dr Gwen Adshead has spent almost thirty years working with the some of the most violent offenders in prisons and high security psychiatric facilities. Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw speak to Dr Gwen Adshead who is delivering this year's BBC Radio 4 Reith Lectures. She tells Bad People that to really understand violence we need to pay more attention to what perpetrators say about it.
Nov 28, 2024 • 34:33
120. We need to talk about Ethan
Should the parents of a high school shooter be held criminally responsible for the actions of their son?The landmark case of James and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of US high school shooter Ethan Crumbley. They were charged with failing to prevent their son's fatal attack.Presented by journalist and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw.Producer: James Shield Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Sc
Nov 21, 2024 • 43:24
119. The Ultimate Foul
Faye Dunn was a professional footballer who played for the England women's team. In 2020, police discovered she had another career in organised crime.Amber Haque tells the story of how Faye and her father were rumbled in the biggest organised crime bust in British history. Dr Julia Shaw delves into the research on double lives and going into crime with a family member.Producers: Maggie Latham, Lorna Reader and Fiona Woods Production Apprentice: Danita McIntyre Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Pro
Nov 14, 2024 • 38:11
118. Killed by Text
The story of how teenager Michelle Carter's text messages to suicidal boyfriend Conrad Roy resulted in death for him and a charge of manslaughter for her.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss whether it should be a crime to encourage someone to take their own life?Producers: Lorna Reader and Rachel Oakes. Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Gr
Nov 7, 2024 • 42:57
117. The Bookkeeper and the Boss
Sherri Lynn Lamarche was the unassuming bookkeeper in a family real estate business in Nova Scotia. She was trusted so much that she managed to steal millions before anyone noticed.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss how criminal psychology's model of the "fraud triangle" perfectly fits this ultimate office drama. It's a classic fraud story of opportunity, incentive and rationalisation.Producers: Ciaran Tracey with help from Lorna Reader, Rhiannon Cobb and Shabnam Grewal Executive Produc
Oct 31, 2024 • 43:10
116. Bad Momfluencer
In February 2024, mother-of-six, beloved parenting guru and social media star Ruby Franke, was convicted and jailed for child abuse.The case struck at the heart of what it means to be a good carer in today’s society, and how even the most loving parent can end up committing unimaginable cruelty.Join criminal psychologist, Dr Julia Shaw and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque as they discuss this truly heartbreaking and mind-boggling case – as well as exploring how what and who we choose to
Oct 24, 2024 • 45:32
115. Lost at Sea
Rebecca Coriam, a 24-year-old from Chester, was working on a cruise ship off the Pacific coast of Mexico when she disappeared in 2011. The story of how the police and the cruise line dealt with her disappearance shines a light on the difficulties of getting a thorough investigation when someone goes missing at sea.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss this story and find out more about crime on cruise ships.Producers: Maggie Latham and Rachel Oakes Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Productio
Oct 17, 2024 • 44:46
114. Showtrial and the politics of protest
Showtrial series 2 is a gripping BBC screen drama about climate activism, civil disobedience and police corruption. Screenwriter Ben Richards joins Julia and Amber to talk about the bad things his characters do and why.In this podcast we state incorrectly that the setting for the courtroom drama was London. We should have said the setting was a Brighton courtroom. We apologise.Producer: Lorna Reader Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott
Oct 10, 2024 • 34:58
113. It's in our DNA
Magdalena Cruz did not know who her father was. But she knew he was a rapist. An ancestry DNA test led her to her likely family. When she looked at their profiles on social media she came across the photograph of a man with a striking family resemblance.Journalist Amber Haque and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw delve into the story.Producers: Ciaran Tracey and James Shield Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: D
Oct 3, 2024 • 44:29
112. Four Boys
Three boys from the same Sunderland school were found dead within a few months of each other in the early 1990s. Their deaths were initially blamed on sniffing glue to get high. But the boys' families thought they had been murdered. And they were right. Two years later, Steven Grieveson was convicted of serial murder. But the investigation wasn't over.Presenters: Criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw and journalist and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque.Producers: Maggie Latham and Rachel Oa
Sep 26, 2024 • 46:01
111. Pretendians
"Pretendians" are people who falsely claim a native American or indigenous Canadian identity.In 2024, a 59 year old woman who falsely claimed her daughters were adopted Inuit girls was sentenced to three years in a Canadian prison. Karima Manji lied about her daughters' heritage to claim $150,000 from funds reserved for Inuit people. The judge sentenced her to more than the two years recommended by the prosecution, stating that Manji had "victimized the Inuit of Nunavut by stealing their identit
Sep 19, 2024 • 40:43
110. Delimar Vera
Baby girl Delimar Vera is declared dead in a house fire. Years later, the bereaved mother thinks she recognises her at a party. The girl she thinks is her daughter is called Aaliyah. The woman who has brought her up claims to be Aaliyah’s birth mother.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss the truth about Delimar Vera’s real fate – and how the research on phantom pregnancy and child abduction help us understand what happened and why.Producers: Maggie Latham and Rachel Oakes Executive Produc
Sep 12, 2024 • 45:10
109. Out of Character Criminal
A law abiding businessman turns criminal after medical treatment. Are hormones to blame?Richard Davis was a 42 year old asexual with a highly successful business and no criminal record. Then he experienced a sudden change of personality. He became sex-obsessed - buying pornography and hiring escorts. Within two years of this personality change, he had convictions for assault and dishonesty and was banned from being a company director.Journalist Amber Haque digs into the newspaper and court archi
Sep 5, 2024 • 43:18
108. I was Tinder Swindled
Presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Amber Haque meet the world's most famous victim of romance fraud: Cecilie Fjellhoy. After exposing the so-called Tindler Swindler in a Netflix hit, Cecilie confronted him in person and set up a campaign to help other victims.Cecilie's life changed radically after she swiped right on the Tinder profile of Simon Leviev.He took her on a private jet on their first date, told her he was the son of a billionaire diamond dealer and seemed to live a jet set life. But though
Aug 29, 2024 • 57:48
107. Gatwick Blackmailer
In TV dramas, criminal profilers solve crimes that the police cannot. Presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Amber Haque look at a real life case. An anonymous blackmailer threatens acid attacks unless his demands for pornographic photos of female airline staff at Gatwick are met. The police are stumped. So, they call in a professor of criminal psychology. What he says astounds them. Further information: Julia refers in this episode to the following study: Analysing criminal profiling validity:
Aug 21, 2024 • 54:22
106. The Pyjama Killer
Bad People is back!Criminal psychologist, Dr Julia Shaw, is joined by a new co-host: journalist and documentary maker Amber Haque.The new season starts with a true crime story that went viral during lockdown.Penny Jackson looked as if she was living the middle class retirement dream. Holidays and a retirement home by the sea.But cooped up with her husband during lockdown, her anger got out of control. After a petty row about food she stabbed her husband to death. When police arrested for murder,
Aug 15, 2024 • 52:05
Bad People is back!
Bad People is back! Criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw makes a return to the series with a new co-host: journalist Amber Haque. Each episode tells the story of a true crime and explains why people do bad things. Murder, blackmail, fraud and much more.Listen every Thursday. Bad People is a BBC Studios Audio production for BBC Sounds.
Aug 8, 2024 • 3:47
105. Dark Arts 2: Can we prevent campaigns of vilification?
It’s the Bad People finale. In this last ever episode, Julia and Sofie dig into the ethics of the media covering criminal cases. After a press “campaign of vilification”, all charges against Christopher Jefferies were dismissed. The tabloids had incorrectly painted him as Joanna Yeates’ killer. Mr Jefferies took the newspapers responsible to court - and won. He then gave evidence during the Leveson Inquiry, the UK’s landmark investigation into wrongdoing and alleged corruption within the media.
Jun 29, 2023 • 42:46
104. Dark Arts 1: How biasing is pre-trial publicity?
In December 2010, the UK media became fixated with the disappearance of 25 year-old Joanna Yeates. When her body was discovered, many tabloid newspapers felt certain they knew the identity of her murderer. Christopher Jefferies had been Joanna’s landlord and was considered by some to be “strange”. The claims against Christopher were unfounded. Being hounded by the press left lasting reputational and psychological scars. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen ask: is it poss
Jun 22, 2023 • 37:12
103. Bad People x People Who Knew Me
Daniella Isaacs, the creator of the new BBC Sounds audio drama, People Who Knew Me, joins Dr Julia Shaw in a conversation about faking one’s own death and using the terrorist attacks in America on September 11th 2001 to do so. We ask, who fakes their own death and why? And how easy is it to pull it off? Warning: This episode contains references to the 9/11 attacks and also suicide and drowning. CREDITS Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw Producer: Simona Rata Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: A
Jun 15, 2023 • 33:16
102. Paedophile Hunters: Do vigilantes help or harm justice?
Convicted child sex offender Mark Sutherland has arranged to meet a 13 year-old boy at a bus station, but when he arrives a team of adult “paedophile hunters” greet him with a video camera. In this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore vigilante justice. What right, if any, do these “hunters” have to track down sex offenders? When text messaging, do people have a right to privacy? And do sex offender registries make us safer or just more scared?CREDITS Presenters: Dr Ju
May 25, 2023 • 39:21
101. Thalaikoothal: What is extreme elder abuse?
In 2010 Pramila Krishnan, a journalist for the Deccan Chronicle, filed a story about a little-known practice called Thalaikoothal. The story was huge in India and lead to the filming of the 2020 Tamil-language film Baaram, which translates as The Burden. In this episode of Bad People, Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss senicide, the killing of older adults. At what point is someone “old” and how does frailty fit into it? At what age, if any, should we want to die? And how prevalent is elder a
May 18, 2023 • 44:46
100. Tough Love: How should we help troubled teens?
It’s 2001 and 14-year-old Anthony Haynes has died. He was one of some 50 kids who participated in a military-style, wilderness programme that was supposed to give troubled teens a new start. Hailed at the time as a local legend among parents struggling with their children, Anthony’s mother had enrolled him after a spell of behavioural problems. Yet, the wilderness therapy Anthony experienced consisted of drill instructions and desert isolation- the sort of ‘tough love’ rife within America’s Trou
May 11, 2023 • 37:30
Ask Bad People: Should we separate the art from the artist?
Should we separate the art from the artist? Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen tackle your questions in this bonus edition of Bad People. Warning: This episode may contain sensitive topics and some strong language. Thanks to everyone who sent us questions! If you want to send us a question then email us. We’re badpeople@bbc.co.uk CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Produced by Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskin
May 4, 2023 • 8:06
99. Central Park Jogger 2: How should we interview children?
The Central Park Five confess on video to police and appear on every front page in America. But why did they confess if it’s not true? In this second episode of this two parter, Bad People hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how the police interview children. Should they be treated the same as adults? Or is there a better way to extract their testimony? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lace
May 4, 2023 • 44:27
98. Central Park Jogger 1: Do you know your right to silence?
It’s 9pm in New York City. More than thirty young men have gathered on the corner of 110th Street and 5th Avenue. They are attacking innocent people in Central Park. What they don’t know is that a woman will also be sexually assaulted, and that five of their friends will be convicted for a brutal crime they didn’t commit. The Central Park Five falsely confess on video to police. In this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how well we know our right to silence, how
Apr 27, 2023 • 37:06
97. Belt Selfie: Why don’t people kill their friends?
In 2015 a woman in Saskatoon was strangled by a belt. Did her friend do it? She has been strangled by a belt that lies next to her body - the same belt her best friend was wearing in a photograph of the two of them that was posted on Facebook earlier that evening. What can really be learned by what we choose to post online? And what might cause a friendship to take a violent turn?On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the psychology of “breaking up” with friends, th
Apr 20, 2023 • 39:23
96. Personification of Evil: Who becomes a prison pen pal?
For her role in the Moors Murders, Myra Hindley was for many years described as ‘‘the most hated woman in Britain’’. So when her escape plot from HMP Holloway in late 1973 is part-aided by then prison guard Patricia Cairns, there is dismay at why anyone would go to such lengths for someone convicted of Hindley’s crimes. What was unearthed during the police investigation, however, was that Hindley and Cairns had established a relationship - not only through interactions within the prison, but thr
Apr 6, 2023 • 42:00
95. Battle for Winson Green: Are prison riots inevitable?
In Winson Green, Birmingham a category B prison is fit to burst, and on the 9th of October 2018 it finally does. Armed with one syringe, three men set five hundred convicts free and over the next twelve hours the building is almost burnt to the ground. The Winson Green riot was one of the largest prison mutinies for twenty-five years and leaves the public wondering how this could have happened. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore when prison riots become ine
Mar 30, 2023 • 42:57
94. Bad People x The Shamima Begum Story
In 2015, fifteen-year-old Shamima Begum left the UK with two of her friends on a flight bound for Turkey. But the East London schoolgirls were not going on holiday. They were going to join thousands of recruits from across the globe in the Syrian city of Raqqa. They were going to join the so-called Islamic State. Four years later Shamima Begum, now nineteen, was found in a refugee camp and the UK Government revoked her citizenship, something she’s been trying to get back ever since. But what w
Mar 23, 2023 • 43:47
93. Spirit Photographer: Are deepfakes a new problem?
In 1861 William Mumler claims to capture a spirit of dead on camera and offers grieving people the chance to sit with a lost loved one, one last time. These controversial photographs unleashed a debate about the nature of reality and truth and marked a cultural moment which questioned whether what we see can really be believed. But is this a new problem? Are deepfakes forcing us to examine the same questions today? On this episode of Bad People, Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss dystopian fu
Mar 16, 2023 • 39:10
92. Drugged Intent: Can intoxication excuse crimes?
It’s 1992 and Barry Kingston, a man with admitted paedophilic tendencies, is accused of indecently assaulting a child. The police have photographs and audio-tape to prove his involvement - and yet Kingston still pleads not guilty. The boy in the case explains he’d been drugged without his consent. But so, it turns out, had Kingston. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the relationship between violent crime, drugs and alcohol, and the moral minefield of involuntar
Mar 9, 2023 • 31:52
91. Knox: Can translators make innocence look guilty?
It’s 2007 in Perugia Italy. A body has been found, but the American suspect maintains her innocence. Amanda Knox spent 7 years in prison for a crime she didn’t commit, but the long path from conviction to acquittal led to her fluency in Italian and defending herself in court. In this episode, can we ever defend ourselves when we don’t speak the language? And when does bad translation lead to bad justice? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Produced by Kate White and Lauren Armst
Mar 2, 2023 • 36:08
90. Trash Puppies: Why are some people cruel to animals?
In April 2018, a sealed plastic bag is found tossed next to a dumpster in Coachella, USA. In it, seven tiny, squeaking, new-born puppies. CCTV footage of the puppy dumping culprit, Deborah Sue Culwell, sparked outrage. On this episode of Bad People, we discuss animal welfare and cruelty, the new psychological categorisation Animal Hoarding Disorder (AHD), the link between animal cruelty and interpersonal violence, and why we often care so deeply about some animals (pets) while ignoring the suffe
Feb 23, 2023 • 38:27
89. Baby Snatcher: Does anyone deserve the death penalty?
Bobbie was eight months pregnant and shared the good news with her online community. But because she met Lisa Montgomery, Bobbie would never have the future she hoped for. In one of the most horrific ways imaginable, Lisa steals her baby. Lisa was the first woman to be put to death by the US government in 67 years. But did she deserve capital punishment? Is the death penalty ever justified? On this episode of Bad People, Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss botched executions, lethal injections
Feb 16, 2023 • 38:33
88. Thoughtcrime: How dangerous is anti-intellectualism?
There was international outcry in 2011 when the celebrated Chinese artist Ai Weiwei was arrested at Beijing airport and imprisoned. The charges against him were vague. So what was Ai Weiwei really in prison for?To begin to answer this, we need to understand the historical background: the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Claiming to purge the country of 'impure' elements, students were encouraged to attack their teachers. Intellectuals were exiled. Books were burned. And the purge didn’t stop there.O
Feb 2, 2023 • 37:33
87. Bad People x Please Protect Abraham
Presenter and journalist Sam Holder speaks to Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen about his new BBC podcast, Please Protect Abraham and whether we’re failing vulnerable witnesses.Sam tells Julia and Sofie the story of Abraham Badru, a young boy who rescues a teenage girl from a violent sexual attack. But witnessing this crime changes his life forever, because now he’s a target too.Together they examine what it means to be a witness when you need protection. What ‘special measures’ can be used to keep
Jan 26, 2023 • 40:00
86. Born Criminal: Is Violence Genetic?
The only murderer in the family? When serial killer Robert Spahalski admitted to murder in 2005, police not only discovered his decades long criminal past but also a fascinating family history that raises the possibility of a genetic tendency towards violence. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen investigate the age-old concept of “bad families” and ask whether criminal behaviour is passed down through generations. And if so, is it through genes, our environment or our experiences? CREDITS Presenters:
Jan 19, 2023 • 32:24
85. Bad People x Bad Blood
In November 2018 Chinese scientist Dr He Jiankui made a big announcement; he had illegally “edited” the DNA of Chinese twin girls Lulu and Nana in an attempt to prevent them from contracting HIV. The news made global headlines and the scientific community reacted with horror. But why is it so controversial to mess with our genes?Dr Julia Shaw is joined by geneticist Dr Adam Rutherford to discuss the dangers of gene editing and how it relates to Nazism and the dark history of trying to breed “bet
Jan 12, 2023 • 31:21
84. Sleepkiller 2: Is sleepwalking a valid legal defence?
On the 22nd of May 1987 Kenneth Parks killed his mother-in-law and almost killed her husband. He claims he was asleep with amnesia for most of the event. The burden of proof is now on the defence. How can he prove that he was asleep? And if he can, does it mean he will walk free? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen investigate how sleep scientists can examine our brainwaves to see whether we are conscious or awake. Can stress, anxiety, or sleep deprivation make us more l
Jan 5, 2023 • 33:33
83. Sleepkiller 1: Can you murder someone while dreaming?
On the 22nd of May 1987 Kenneth Parks got into his car and drove 27 km up a three-lane highway to his beloved parents-in-law's home. He claims he was asleep through his horrific actions until he woke up with blood dripping from his hands. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen look into the science of sleepwalking, sleep terrors, and related parasomnias. What is REM sleep? What are we capable of while asleep? What kind of sleep disruptions are normal? And is there a link be
Dec 29, 2022 • 32:56
82: Bad People’s 2022 True Crime Crackers: Part 2
Dr Julia Shaw unwraps Bad People’s choice of true crime podcasts in 2022.She talks to Gabriel Gatehouse about his series The Coming Storm, which began as an investigation into the Q-Anon phenomenon and has evolved to explore major conspiracies that have engulfed politics in the US and beyond. Julia also meets Winifred Robinson, the acclaimed BBC journalist whose podcast The Boy in the Woods revisits the disturbing case of murdered six year-old Rikki Neave. And journalist Una Mullally discusses
Dec 22, 2022 • 41:35
81: Bad People’s 2022 True Crime Crackers: Part 1
Dr Julia Shaw unwraps Bad People’s choice of true crime podcasts in 2022.She talks to BBC social media and disinformation correspondent Marianna Spring about her series Disaster Trolls, which investigates the trolling of victims of terror attacks by people who claim they never happened.Julia also meets Audrey Gillan, the acclaimed journalist who’s podcast Bible John: Creation of a Serial Killer reinvestigates horrific murders that shocked Glasgow over fifty years ago. We hear from Formula One ex
Dec 15, 2022 • 44:59
80. Hot-dog Hubbub: Should it be a crime to do nothing?
It’s the early hours of the morning in Merseyside. Peter Stubbs is thrown out of Cindy’s Nightclub, then brutally beaten in the street. Constable Dytham is standing nearby and watches it happen. The minutes tick on and the violence subsides, but it’s clear that Peter is dead. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore whether it should be a crime to do nothing. They ask why we don't step in when we know we should, and discover what happens when inaction leads to conv
Dec 8, 2022 • 32:18
79. Unmasked: Could someone steal your face?
In 2010 a serial robber was on the loose in Cincinnati, US. Surveillance footage shows a clear image of a black man, with a black hoodie and sunglasses on. When tips come in the police follow the trail to a woman’s house. When she opens the door she says, “I know why you're here. I just saw on television my son robbing a bank”.After arresting their prime suspect, it emerges that the police have the wrong man in custody. So if their suspect didn’t commit the crime, who has his face? On this episo
Nov 10, 2022 • 32:24
78. Colston Four: Why are slaver statues still standing?
In 1895 a bronze statue of slave trader Edward Colston was erected on top of a stone plinth in the centre of Bristol. Colston had made large donations to charities, schools and hospitals in the city, and certain businessmen saw him as a philanthropist. A plaque beneath the statue described Colston as one of the “most virtuous and wise sons of the city”. But there was no mention anywhere that he made his fortune as a slave trader. 125 years later, in 2020, the statue was still there despite man
Nov 3, 2022 • 34:54
77. Ambushed: Can reality TV humiliation break us?
On the 6th of March 1995 Scott Amedure reveals his growing sexual attraction to a friend in front of a large studio audience. Behind the scenes, Jonathan Schmitz is waiting to meet a secret admirer. Jonathan is led on stage of the Jenny Jones Show and each man is revealed to the other. Scott’s face lights up but Jonathan’s expression is inscrutable, and the crowd erupts with laughter around them. Just three days after filming, Jonathan Schmitz shot his friend Scott in the chest, killing him ther
Oct 27, 2022 • 32:13
76. Burn Wild: How far is too far to save the planet?
On this episode of Bad People, producer and journalist Georgia Catt speaks to Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen about her new BBC podcast, Burn Wild.Georgia tells Julia and Sofie the story of the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), a group of radical underground environmentalists known as ‘elves’ and together they examine how a movement that never killed anyone became the FBI’s number one domestic terror threat. Should we ditch the term ‘eco-terrorism’ and how far can we go to stop the planet from burning
Oct 20, 2022 • 42:14
75. Wrong Wife: Should we be worried about DIY firearms?
A popular chef instructor at a culinary school in Oregon is found shot dead in the campus kitchen. Police think it’s a homicide but have trouble establishing a motive. There are intriguing similarities between the gun that killed Chef Brophy and one belonging to their prime suspect, but they are not the same weapon.On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen ask what we really know about the increasing concern surrounding unregistered firearms or “ghost guns”. Can deadly weapon
Oct 13, 2022 • 34:52
74. Web of Deceit: When should offenders be released?
In 2009 London taxi driver John Worboys was found guilty of raping one woman and sexually assaulting five, as well as twelve charges of drugging women while they were passengers in his cab. Following a high-profile trial he was given an indeterminate prison sentence as it emerged that there may have been more than 100 victims. However, there was a public outcry when it was announced in 2018 that Worboys was to be released from prison on parole after serving just ten years in custody. How does th
Oct 6, 2022 • 38:25
73. Fire bath: Is it a “slow burn”, or murder?
In 1989 Kiranjit Ahuwalia set fire to her sleeping husband who was found running around their front garden. It emerged that she had suffered years of abuse at his hands, but is it possible to defend yourself against a sleeping attacker? This case forced the courts to examine the way that years of abuse may cloud your judgement, and specifically; what constitutes “provocation”? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether provocation can ever be a “slow burn” and w
Sep 29, 2022 • 31:29
Gamergate: What is doxxing?
In 2014 the ex-partner of video game maker Zoe Quinn released an online essay with intimate details of their relationship and breakup. The story takes on a life of its own when internet trolls start referencing it in misogynistic conspiracy theories posted on online forums. Soon Quinn is bombarded with serious threats of real world violence. When details of where she lives circulate, she flees her home. Quinn was only the beginning as the harassments spread to others who were advocating for an i
Sep 1, 2022 • 36:43
71. The Oversteegen Sisters: Is it ever OK to kill?
During the German occupation of the Netherlands two shy teenagers, Truus and Freddie Oversteegen, were recruited into the Dutch Resistance. They quickly went from circulating illegal newspapers to seducing Nazis and German collaborators in bars before luring them into the woods…In this episode of Bad People, recorded live at the Edinburgh Fringe, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen tackle ethical questions: When should children be allowed to take part in war and under what circumstances? And is killin
Aug 25, 2022 • 42:24
70. Pharma Bro 2: Why do we hate?
In September 2015, Martin Shkreli quickly became ‘the most hated man in America’ after he raised the price of the life-saving drug, Daraprim, by more than 4,000% - almost overnight. Instead of apologising or hiding away, Shkreli decided to lean into his villain image, with even more media appearances and antagonising acts. In an interview with The Hustle magazine, Shkreli was quoted as saying: “People want a villain,” “If people derive some psychological benefit from that, then I don’t want to d
Aug 18, 2022 • 32:18
69. Pharma Bro 1: Is greed inherently bad?
In September 2015, Martin Shkreli’s name made headlines. He quickly became ‘the most hated man in America’ after he raised the price of the life-saving drug, Daraprim, by more than 4,000% - almost overnight. He was vilified by the press and the public alike and was often referred to as ‘pharma bro’, a representation of everything that was seemingly wrong with Big Pharma. Was Martin Shkreli unfairly singled out? How was any of it legal? And is ruthlessness in business justified?This is part one o
Aug 11, 2022 • 37:18
68. The Letterman: When does dark humour go too far?
During an operation in 2013 a nurse sends the surgeon, Dr Simon Bramhall, a sharp look. He shrugs it off and tells her “this is what I do” and continues to burn his initials into the patient's newly transplanted liver. Later, Dr Bramhall argues that dark humour is a way to take the pressure off when working in a high-pressure hospital job. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the nature of dark humour and how an unusual crime was eventually prosecuted. Where sh
Aug 4, 2022 • 35:32
67. Gangster: Career Criminals
If you‘ve already made millions and you know you’re being watched, why keep offending?Curtis Warren was one of Britain’s wealthiest drug barons, who had a remarkable journey from the streets of Liverpool to the summit of the international cocaine trade. He was the first person to trade directly with the notorious Cali Cartel in South America, and the courts eventually asked him to pay back an incredible £198 million.Yet Curtis Warren has spent the majority of his adult life behind bars, unable t
Jul 28, 2022 • 31:15
66. Respawn: What is child-to-parent violence?
Daniel Petric grabbed his father's 9mm handgun from a lockbox and while his siblings were away shot both of his parents. He had been planning his revenge for a week. Before he made his escape in the family minivan, Daniel grabbed the one thing this was all for: the Halo 3 video game his parents wouldn’t let him play.The Defense argued that Petric’s sense of reality was altered because of all the video games he played. Can his love of video games help explain why he attacked his parents? Or is th
Jul 21, 2022 • 36:15
65. Bloody footprint: What rights does a dead body have?
In 1987 in the town of Royal Tunbridge Wells, a “peeping Tom” is spotted lurking by the windows of women. Soon after, Wendy Knell and Caroline Pierce are both found brutally murdered and sexually assaulted after their deaths. Thirty year later, a special task force dedicated to cold cases finally track down the man who became known as the “Bedsit Killer”. The case takes a nasty turn when the police make a horrifying discovery at the killer’s home. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw an
Jul 14, 2022 • 33:11
Bi People 4: Are bisexuals invisible at work?
US politician, Katie Hill, is one of the first politicians to openly identify as bisexual while campaigning for office. However things quickly take a turn for the worse as she is entangled in a scandal, and the media share naked photos of her in a sexual relationship with a younger female member of staff. Would the fallout have been different if she had stayed in the closet?In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality.In this
Jun 30, 2022 • 27:48
Bi People 3: Could you prove your sexuality?
Omar comes to the UK after falling in love with a British woman. After his relationship breaks down, he seeks asylum, claiming it is unsafe for him to return to The Gambia because he has been persecuted and assaulted for being bisexual. But can he prove his bisexuality in court? Can anyone?In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, they discuss research on the difficulties faced by bisexual aslyum seekers,
Jun 23, 2022 • 35:41
Bi People 2: Why did Pride begin?
Police officers are locked in a pub in New York. People attempt to set the building on fire. And a riot begins. It spreads across the city and lasts for a full three days. But what triggered the riots? And how did it lead to the Pride marches we see all over the world today? In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. In this episode, Julia and Sofie discuss the origins of Pride marches, how they make their own sexual ident
Jun 16, 2022 • 32:04
Bi People 1: How queer are you?
Running a bookshop might sound like the epitome of a quiet life. But for one man, the act of selling a very specific book resulted in his arrest - and led to the publisher of that book taking his own life. What made it so controversial?In celebration of Pride Month, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality.In this first episode, they discuss the origins of sexuality research and their own sexual identities. Warning: This episode includes mention of su
Jun 9, 2022 • 34:09
Bi People is coming soon
In celebration of Pride Month Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the history, science and culture of bisexuality. They discuss research on how we can measure sexuality, what REALLY happened during the Stonewall uprising, and the bi-acivists who fought to make pride happen.This is Bi People.
Jun 2, 2022 • 1:42
64. Underworld Aristocracy: Who chooses solitary confinement?
John McAvoy’s biological father passed away shortly before he was born, leaving him to be raised by a community of women. As a child, John loved history, was bright and ambitious and wanted to leave his mark on the world. He also happened to be Micky McAvoy’s nephew, a notorious criminal and the mastermind behind Brinks-Mat, the biggest gold heist in UK history. Soon what started as a childhood dream to own British Telecom turned into a career as an armed robber. But John turned it all around in
Apr 28, 2022 • 29:25
63. No socks: Why do people confess their crimes?
In 1983 Kieran Patrick Kelly, who was living on the streets of London at the time, was brought into Clapham Police Station for attacking and stealing an old man’s watch and wedding ring. Kelly murdered his cell-mate during his first night in custody for snoring too loudly. While under questioning he went on to willingly confess to multiple other murders the police didn’t know about nor suspect him of – essentially he willingly confessed to being a serial killer. In this episode of Bad People D
Apr 21, 2022 • 26:55
62. Unabomber 2: A mastermind with a lack of insight?
After six years of inactivity, the Unabomber is back. The FBI reinvigorate the investigation and the chase begins once more. When Ted Kaczynski’s brother, David, finds an earlier version of the Unabomber’s Manifesto among a series of letters from Ted to their mother, he calls the FBI. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss Kaczynski’s childhood, dubious psychological testing at Harvard University and challenge the media narrative that he was some sort of ‘
Apr 14, 2022 • 30:21
61. Unabomber 1: How far are technophobes willing to go?
From 1978 to 1995, Ted Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, built and mailed a series of homemade bombs, killing three people and injuring many more. Kaczynski lived alone in a cabin in the woods, in Lincoln, Montana and documented his ‘failures’ and ‘successes’ in code, in a personal journal. His targets were university professors, technocrats and anyone seen to further, as he saw it, technological development. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen unpick what
Apr 7, 2022 • 26:35
60. Little Helen: How fallible are forensics?
On the 20th of April 1934, eight-year-old Helen was sent to buy bread for her mother. She reached the bakery around 1.30 in the afternoon, spent exactly 4 dimes and was seen returning home by a few neighbors. But she never made it all the way and later that day her parents, friends and the police began a search that lasted through the night. What do Aberdeen, a half-loaf of bread, and the history of forensic science have in common? In this episode of Bad People, recorded live at the festival Gra
Mar 24, 2022 • 40:33
59. Poster boy: When is homophobia a hate crime?
In 1998 Matthew Shepard, becomes the victim of radical homophobia in Wyoming. Two suspects, Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson are almost immediately taken into custody and charged. The “gay panic” defense is used in court. But, does it work?Shepard becomes the poster boy for the horrific consequences of anti-gay hate, and his case helps to re-define hate crimes in the US. Celebrities get involved, marches are held, and a decade later, in 2009, the United States Congress passes the Matthew She
Mar 17, 2022 • 34:51
Message for our listeners
A Bad People special episode will be available shortly. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen speak to Gordon Corera, the Security Consultant on Killing Eve.They discuss ‘dry cleaning’, secret recording devices and fake identities.
Mar 13, 2022 • 0:48
58. Africa Eye: Black Market Babies
Klenice grew up in a village in rural Western Kenya. When both her parents passed away, she dropped out of school and started working to support herself. The father of her first child also died unexpectedly and by the age of 22 she was a single mother. What drives a mother to sell her own child? And who facilitates such a sale?In 2019, BBC Africa Eye launched an investigation into Kenya’s black market for babies. Presenter Njeri Mwangi worked on the yearlong undercover operation and joins Dr Jul
Mar 10, 2022 • 38:13
57. The Iceman: Who becomes a contract killer?
The Iceman, Richard Kuklinski, was a notorious contract killer. Over the course of his ‘career’ he, by his own admission, killed over 100 people. Some were contracted murders – hits - others were victims of revenge and a few were just at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Richard Kuklinski had links to the Gambino family, was efficient and killed in a myriad of ways. In the process, he made himself, and his family, rich. Who hires contract killers? What is the interview process like? And do yo
Mar 3, 2022 • 36:25
56. Death on camera: How can we tackle white fragility?
In 1998, Christopher Alder spent the evening at the "student night" of a nightclub in Hull, England. The night escalated dramatically and eventually lead to a national conversation about racism and the police's treatment of Black people. A video released years after Alder's tragic death revealed audible "monkey noises", reviving the discussion about the case and the important issues it raises. In this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the circumstances that led to Chr
Feb 24, 2022 • 37:19
55. Jon Ronson: The Satanic Panic
When day-care employee, Kelly Michaels, is accused of playing the piano naked in front of children, she is speechless. The case escalates and soon Kelly Michaels is faced with charges of outlandish crimes. The trial changes her life forever. She spends years in prison before being exonerated. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by writer Jon Ronson, who interviewed Kelly Michaels for the podcast “Things Fell Apart”. They discuss how her case was part of a the
Feb 17, 2022 • 40:44
54. The Jump: Is jealousy a useful emotion?
Three friends - Babs, Els and Marcel - jump out of a plane together. They are regular sky divers and as they approach the ground they activate their parachutes. Els' parachute fails, as does her reserve parachute. She falls the remaining 1000m to her death. Was it a tragic accident or was it murder?In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen debate their differing views on monogamy. They discuss the psychology of jealousy: what makes someone jealous and does it serve any purpose
Feb 10, 2022 • 32:18
53. Wiretapped: Can you hear colour?
When Clifford brokers a small drug deal he doesn’t know that the police are listening in. Clifford is arrested and when the case goes to trial, the recording of the deal is not allowed into evidence by the judge. But the testimony of the police officer is. This becomes the focal point of a courtroom drama that makes it all the way to the Supreme Court of Kentucky. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by our scientific advisor from the Open University, Dr Lara
Feb 3, 2022 • 32:30
52. Uncivilised Cruelty: Should rough sex be illegal?
Studies show that nearly half the UK population have experimented with bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism (BDSM). It is surprisingly common, so why did a group of men practicing BDSM end up in prison? Should we police what people do in the bedroom?On this episode of bad people Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the “rough sex” defence. Is it an opportunity to get away with murder or a necessary part of the legal framework? This episode contains audio from BBC Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour and th
Jan 27, 2022 • 32:52
51. Fen-Phen Scandal: What would you risk to be thin?
Mary Linnen, a woman in her late 20s, had just gotten engaged and she wanted to lose some weight for the wedding. Her doctor prescribed a combination of drugs called Fen-Phen. And it worked instantly. She lost weight but then she also started to lose her breath a lot. Other agonising symptoms soon followed including swelling of legs and stomach. Mary becomes one of the first Fen-Phen victims of which there are thousands. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the extreme lengths and risks that pe
Jan 20, 2022 • 41:19
50. Death Truck: What motivates people smugglers?
On the 27th of August 2015, a chicken truck is abandoned in Austria when smugglers realise the worst has happened. The tragedy shook Europe and lead to changes in immigration policy.In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the difference between human trafficking and people smuggling, the risk-reward ratio for the criminal networks involved, their estimated financial turnover, and why many people smugglers are both victims and perpetrators.The episode also dissects th
Jan 13, 2022 • 28:52
49. Black Pill: Are incels dangerous?
23rd April 2018 was the date selected by John Doe as the day he would kill as many residents of Toronto as possible. Witnesses describe seeing a white van mount the pavement on busy Yonge Street and run down pedestrians. Ten people sadly lost their lives. John Doe drew inspiration from the misogynistic online “incel” movement: groups of men who blame their lack of sexual activity on women and resent sexually “succesful” men. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen d
Jan 6, 2022 • 38:32
Message for our listeners
Bad People specials will be available on BBC Sounds. On December 28th, Dr Julia Shaw, Sofie Hagen and Sarah Phelps, the writer of the new BBC One drama A Very British Scandal, talk about slut-shaming in the 1960s and today. On January 2nd, Julia and Sofie speak with Danielle MacDonald about her character in the new BBC One drama The Tourist. They discuss fatphobia, emotional abuse and what it was like filming during a sandstorm in Australia’s outback.
Dec 28, 2021 • 1:03
48. Family Reunion: Research opportunity or ethical nightmare?
When Robert Shafran arrives for his first day of college he is overwhelmed by the friendliness and familiarity of the other students. Dazed and confused, he soon discovers that he is identical to another boy who just left the college. Both are adopted. Robert and his brother, Eddy, are thrilled to find each other and it doesn’t take long before – in an unbelievable twist – a third identical brother comes forward. Their feel-good story brings fame and huge media interests. But the story of long-l
Nov 25, 2021 • 42:09
47. Bad Influencer: Can you spot pseudo-scientific health claims?
In 2009, Belle Gibson shared on her blog that she was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and had only four months to live. She then began documenting her journey of healing via clean eating. When Instagram launched a year later, she quickly amassed a following of 200,000 people, becoming one of the very first wellness influencers. But was she just taking advantage of people's wishful thinking?In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how “wellness” has been conceptua
Nov 18, 2021 • 36:51
46. Tiny Shoes: Can we heal injustices against Indigenous peoples?
Earlier this year, hundreds of unmarked graves were discovered at Canadian residential schools. What is the truth behind what really happened at these schools? On this episode, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how trauma can be passed from generation to generation and what can be done to heal the wounds caused by such poor treatment of Indigenous Canadians.They debate whether or not intergenerational trauma should be taken into account in sentencing decisions. In Canada, sentencing ju
Nov 11, 2021 • 35:29
45. Call Centre Crooks: How do you catch a scammer?
When 80-year old Kathleen is called up by a nice man from her computer company she does not suspect foul play. And when he tells her that she is owed a refund, she follows his instructions.Scams costs victims millions every year and the problem is only growing. “Scam-baiter” Jim Browning has had enough of scam-calls and has decided to use their own tricks against them. It is illegal and dangerous work. What Jim discovers is chilling. Scams are a huge industry that involves large call centres and
Nov 4, 2021 • 41:10
44. Operation Island: What do we know about male victims of rape?
The UK’s most prolific rapist only targeted men, but the case is largely unknown. He would wait outside clubs in Manchester and offer men who looked vulnerable a place to charge their phone or call a taxi. Then he would slip the men a drug and rape them while they were unconscious, meaning that the majority of his victims had no idea what had happened to them until they were contacted by the police. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen debate whether or not the poli
Oct 28, 2021 • 34:53
43. Le Fake: Are con artists pathological liars?
When a young man claiming to be an heir to the Rockefeller estate turns up in a silver Ferrari in The Hamptons in the US, the rich and the famous invite him into their lives. Many are dazzled by his expensive lifestyle so when he offers extraordinary returns on investments, the money pours in. But Christophe is not a Rockefeller and he has no intention of investing the money. He pockets it and goes on the run from the FBI. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen track
Oct 21, 2021 • 37:18
42. Jonestown: How can you tell that you’re in a cult?
In the late 1970s, a charismatic cult leader, Jim Jones, promised his followers that they would create a utopian community based on Christian values and racial equality. In the jungle in Guyana, South America, Jones started the project and named it after himself: Jonestown. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss why so many people joined and later stayed in Peoples Temple. Once isolated in the jungle, it became hard for the inhabitants to escape and Jim Jones' abuse
Oct 14, 2021 • 36:58
41. 666devil: Could anyone become a victim of sextortion?
Matt Falder is the UK’s worst “sextorter”. A convicted serial sex offender, he used online accounts to blackmail over 40 victims into sending him naked photos, perform sexual acts and even getting one person commit rape. He was also at the time, a Cambridge University student and one of the Bad People team shares their story of coming face to face with him. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how the online world has created a new type of crime that targets and exploits young people in the mos
Oct 7, 2021 • 27:58
40. Hungry like the Wolf: Can we ever understand filicide?
In 1983 Diane Downs carries her three small children into a hospital in Oregon, all suffering from gunshot wounds.The mother explains that she had been the victim of an attempted carjacking, but managed to trick her attacker and escape. However, not long after, the police’s attention turns towards her as a potential suspect. What could lead a mother to harm her own children? In this episode of Bad People, presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the topic of familicide and Julia shares h
Sep 30, 2021 • 25:05
39. King of Farum: Why do we love anti-heroes?
Comedian Sofie Hagen takes us back to her childhood where she unexpectedly received a laptop and free holiday from the municipality. The former tax minister, Peter Brixtofte, was the mayor of Sofie’s town and his “generosity” meant that the citizens loved him. But soon people started to ask: where does the money come from for all these gifts? And why are Peter Brixtofte’s restaurant receipts so enormous? And why are big companies suddenly donating huge sums to the small local football club?On th
Sep 23, 2021 • 35:23
38. The Yorkshire Ripper: Do women need to reclaim the night?
Peter Sutcliffe, better known as the Yorkshire Ripper murdered 13 women and attacked many others. The case involved 5 million hours of mostly futile police work and sparked angst and fury among women. Could he have been stopped sooner?On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how the police were sidetracked in their investigation by confirmation bias and sexism and how women responded with “Reclaim the Night” marches across the country. Warning: This episode includes d
Sep 16, 2021 • 34:44
New series coming 16th September
Con-artists. Corruption. Cult leaders. Murders. Rapists. Extortionists. Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen are back soon with stories of the worst among us and the research that can help us understand how and why someone might turn bad. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Co
Sep 9, 2021 • 3:23
37. Mr Creepy: Can gun bans prevent school shootings?
25 years ago, a man walked into Dunblane Primary School and opened fire on a gymnasium full of school children. The horror of this event led to a change in gun legislation - did it work?The US has more school shootings than any other country in the world, should the US adopt the UK’s gun legislation?On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss who is to blame for school shootings and what can be done to prevent them. This episode includes audio from the document
Jul 29, 2021 • 36:39
36. Nazi on Trial 2: Is Evil banal?
We continue the story of the notorious Nazi officer and organiser of the Holocaust, Adolf Eichmann, as he goes on trial in Israel. Political theorist Hannah Arendt covers the case, and like so many others, expects to see a monster in a glass cage. Instead she arrives at the chilling conclusion that Eichmann is not a criminal mastermind nor a “monster”, but a dim-witted bureaucrat. Her description upset many people, because how can something so terrible as the holocaust happen? Surely the devil h
Jul 22, 2021 • 34:40
35. Nazi on Trial 1: Can “just following orders” justify horrific crimes?
Our story starts in Argentina in 1960. A middle-age man is on his way home. As he gets off the bus, hooded men grab him and shuffle him into a van. The man is Adolf Eichmann and the hooded men are Israeli intelligence officers. They smuggle him to Israel to stand trial for his role in the Holocaust. As a prominent Nazi in Hitler’s Third Reich, Eichmann organised the deportations of millions of Jewish people to death camps. He gets the chilling nickname “The Architect of the Holocaust”. The trial
Jul 15, 2021 • 36:26
34. #Pizzagate: Why do people believe conspiracy theories?
Back in 2016 the pizza restaurant owner James Alefantis began to receive a large number of abusive messages on social media. Confused and afraid, he goes online and to his horror discovers dozens of bogus articles describing how the basement of his pizza joint is being used to traffic and molest children. The architect of this so-called “child sex ring”, the fake articles conclude, is presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and her inner circle. Later that year, Edgar Welch burts into the restaur
Jul 8, 2021 • 43:39
33. Kill Team: Could you be trained to kill on command?
A group of American soldiers sought out and murdered three civilians in Afghanistan. How did this happen? Was it the work of a rogue platoon or is it part of a larger issue?On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss how soldiers are trained to kill and what counts as murder at war. How do we distinguish between a successful battlefield kill and an unlawful murder? This episode includes audio from a documentary made by F/8 filmworks, and directed by Dan Krauss,
Jul 1, 2021 • 34:41
32. Jimmy McGovern: Doing Time
This episode of Bad People features the writer of the new BBC One hit drama, Time, Jimmy McGovern. There will be spoilers. Mark Cobden is drunk. Again. But this time he gets into his car and drives off. Moments later he hits and kills a cyclist. Criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw, comedian Sofie Hagen and the Bafta and Emmy-winning writer Jimmy McGovern discuss what makes dangerous driving a relatable crime. Mark did not mean to hurt anyone, so does he belong in prison? And if so, what sort of
Jun 20, 2021 • 45:20
31. Horrorhaus Höxter 2: Should we judge offenders for being ice cold?
This is part two of the shocking story of abuse and torture which marked the small German town of Höxter. Angelika was called the ‘torture witch’, a psychopath, and a sadist.The truth about Angelika is more interesting. Her relationship with Wilfried took her down a dark path that made her testimony in court so hard to listen to that the judge called a break so everyone could get some air. But it’s not just the details that shocked people, her ice cold presentation was seen by many as proof that
Jun 17, 2021 • 42:20
30. Horrorhaus Höxter 1: Do you need to be a sadist to torture people?
In the middle of a snowstorm in April 2016 a car broke down on the outskirts of a sleepy German town. Angelika, a middle-aged woman, stepped out and knocked on a neighbour’s door asking for help. Wilfried, her partner, stayed behind. But, why did the woman in the back of their car have so many injuries? What had happened to her? In this episode of Bad People, presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss a famous German case of abuse and torture which shocked the country. They talk about
Jun 10, 2021 • 35:35
29. Tuskegee Trauma: How lethal is medical racism?
In the 1930s in Tuskegee, Alabama, hundreds of men signed up to a medical study which offered free transportation to and from hospitals, free hot lunches and free medicine for most diseases.But the men were not informed of their diagnosis or treated for the disease that was killing them - syphilis. This study went on for 40 years and 128 men died from syphilis and related conditions.On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss whether or not the Tuskegee syphili
Jun 3, 2021 • 36:22
28. Eating Fireballs: Is prison education a good idea?
In 1997 Lyle May murdered a young mother and her son, allegedly after being annoyed by them at a dinner party. He was later convicted of two counts of first-degree murder and is now on North Carolina’s Death Row. Should he be allowed to get a prison education? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the link between prison education and violence and overcoming the self-stigmatisation of inmates. They also speak with Stephen Akpabio-Klementowski, who went to pris
May 27, 2021 • 36:15
27. Hollywood Predator: Would you keep an open secret?
American film producer Harvey Weinstein has been sentenced to 23 years in prison for two separate cases of sexual assault. Women have made allegations of Weinstein committing sexual assault over decades.Are people who witnessed his crimes but didn’t speak up partly to blame for his long history of misconduct? And, what is it about some workplaces that make them particularly likely to lead to people not speaking up when things go wrong?On this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and comedian So
May 20, 2021 • 39:46
26. House of Tears: Why do we mistreat young mums?
Children are playing on the grounds of a former Irish Mother and Baby Home in Tuam when they find 20 tiny skeletons under a concrete slab. Stories follow that shock the world, of over 800 babies found in a septic tank. But who is to blame?Years later, an investigation into the Bon Secours Home establishes that 978 babies and children died on the grounds while it was run by Catholic nuns. The 2021 report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes draws attention to the horrific
May 13, 2021 • 41:14
25. Suicide Voyeur: Why is assisted dying a crime?
William Melchert-Dinkle posed as a female nurse online and encouraged people with suicidal thoughts to hang themselves. He even watched some of them carry it out via webcam. He was convicted of assisting suicide and given a prison sentence. But, this is an unusual case.Does criminalising assisted dying protect vulnerable people or take the power away from people to choose when and how they die? Geoff Whaley suffered from motor neurone disease and campaigned for assisted suicide to be legalised s
May 6, 2021 • 45:16
24. Missing Little Princess: Can we detect high-stakes lies?
On the 19th February 2008, nine-year-old Shannon Matthews went missing in Dewsbury in West Yorkshire. She had just been dropped off by a coach at her school which was just half a mile from her home. Shannon’s best friend said her brother was supposed to be collecting her but he never turned up.Shannon’s mum Karen reported her missing later that evening. The Police moved quickly for fear that she had been abducted. Emotional TV appeals by her mother, Karen, soon followed. At one stage, up to 250
Apr 29, 2021 • 27:37
23. Blue Lips: Does good cop / bad cop actually work?
On the 22nd of April 1972, the police in the southeast London borough of Lewisham were alerted to a house fire on Doggett Road. On the second floor of the building, they discovered the body of 26-year-old Maxwell Confait.Three boys later confessed to the murder. In this episode of Bad People, Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen examine what went wrong in the police interviewing process, the major legal reforms that followed and their implications for police practices in the UK today. We also hear fro
Apr 22, 2021 • 38:17
22. The Butcher of Baghdad: Would you kill a dictator?
The former President of Iraq, Saddam Hussein, was implicated in the killing of between 50,000 and 100,000 people. In 2006, he was sentenced to death by hanging for committing crimes against humanity. But do his crimes justify his death? Should we be writing him off as evil or is it worth trying to empathise with him? And does revenge actually make us feel good in the long run?Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie H
Apr 15, 2021 • 32:22
21. No Angel: When is spreading infectious diseases a crime?
Popstar Nadja Benaissa was convicted of recklessly transmitting HIV. She was blackmailed and attacked by the press. Did she deserve the hatred she received? On this episode of Bad People, presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether knowingly spreading an infectious disease should be criminalised and what that means for COVID-19 rule breakers. Is consenting to getting HIV legally possible? What are the ethical problems raised by putting someone with HIV or AIDS in prison? And w
Apr 8, 2021 • 36:46
No fooling, Bad People is back
Murderers. Dictators. Sex offenders. Why do people do bad things? Bad People is back for another series.Archive credits: This episode contains audio from House of Saddam, a BBC Television and HBO Films production, and Shannon: The Mother of All Lies, a BBC Panorama production.Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Louisa Field & Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami TzabarAcademic Consultants for Open University: Dr. Zoe Walk
Apr 1, 2021 • 4:23
Bad People x The Serpent Part 3: Hunting Sobhraj
Charles Sobhraj is a convicted killer and the inspiration for the new BBC One drama, The Serpent. Julia and Sofie speak with producer Paul Testar about the unlikely history of Interpol, missing persons, and Sobhraj’s many escapes. We also hear audio clips from Herman Knippenberg, who played a crucial role in Sobhraj’s capture.Find out how he once tunnelled a hole through the ceiling of a jewellery shop, faked the symptoms of appendicitis, and threw a birthday party for the Tihar Jail’s prison gu
Feb 14, 2021 • 42:11
Bad People x The Serpent Part 2: Psychopathic charm
Charles Sobhraj is a convicted killer and the inspiration for the new BBC One drama, The Serpent.Julia and Sofie speak with Julie Clark, journalist and author of On the Trail of the Serpent: The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj. Julie and her late husband Richard Neville met Sobhraj. What is he really like? And we hear from Sobhraj himself as Julie shares a secret recording from his cell. Spending so much time with Sobhraj landed Julie and Richard in a tricky situation, Sobhraj told them he
Jan 23, 2021 • 40:46
20. Murder Behind Bars: How does prison change you?
What happens when a man serving multiple life sentences keeps killing in prison?In July 1996, while in solitary confinement, Craig Bjork wrote to the warden of Stillwater prison in Minnesota threatening to commit mass murder against his fellow inmates. One year later he kills his first victim. Bjork who was already serving three consecutive life terms for killing his entire family reportedly asked ‘what can they do? Give me more time?’ On this episode of Bad People presenters Julia Shaw and
Jan 14, 2021 • 28:43
19. Livestreaming Killer: Would you kill for fame?
Early one morning in July 2019, Brandon Clark used his online platform to share graphic photos with his followers, including a photo that appeared to show a woman’s bloodied torso, captioned “I’m sorry Bianca”.Not long after this, police found Brandon lying on top of a green tarp. He had spray-painted the words “May you never forget me” on the ground. He had killed 17-year-old ‘micro-influencer’ Bianca Devins. Why did he choose to broadcast her murder? Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss ‘e-
Jan 7, 2021 • 30:17
Bad People x The Serpent Part 1: The hippie trail
Charles Sobhraj is a convicted killer and the inspiration for the new BBC One drama, The Serpent. Julia and Sofie speak with producer Paul Testar to learn what it was about Sobhraj that inspired this show. Was it the nature of his crimes? His charm? Or something else? Julia and Sofie discuss Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and how this famous construct was partly inspired by hippie culture. Perhaps Maslow can help us better understand how Sobhraj appealed to so many people travelling abroad? W
Jan 1, 2021 • 35:14
18. Lone Wolf: Who becomes a far-right terrorist?
When far-right terrorist Anders Breivik murdered 77 people, many of whom were children, court-appointed psychiatrists declared him insane. Many Norwegian members of the public were angry that a diagnosis of a psychotic disorder would mean he would not be held accountable for his crimes and might even be freed early. He told doctors that he was the leader of a military group at war with Norway, committed to racist, anti-Muslim ideas.Breivik himself rejected the "insanity defence", insistent that
Dec 31, 2020 • 36:18
Black Saturday: Why is Wildfire Arson Common?
On February 7th 2009, Australia experienced its worst natural disaster. The weeks-long intense heat and gale force winds culminated in 400 separate wildfires which ended up taking 173 lives.In the town of Churchill, detectives began an investigation which led them to believe that one man, driving a sky-blue sedan, may be responsible for 10 of those deaths.After the arrest, detectives quickly realised that the man in their custody was not who they thought they'd be dealing with.On this episode of
Dec 24, 2020 • 31:02
16. The Pearl Earring: No body, no parole?
If a killer refuses to reveal where they’ve hidden a body – should they have to stay in prison?Helen McCourt’s family campaigned for the UK to adopt an Australian-style “no body, no parole” law – but would it be adopted in time to stop the release of her killer?In 1989 pub landlord Ian Simms was one of the first people in the UK to be convicted on DNA evidence without the victim's body having been found. Sentenced to at least 16 years in jail for Helen's murder, Simms still claims he's innocent.
Dec 17, 2020 • 29:00
15. "Insanity": Can schizophrenia cause violence?
There were signs that the former polo player Alexander Lewis Ranwell was unravelling in early 2019. He’d lost his job and his girlfriend, was living in a caravan and was no longer taking medication to treat his delusions or hallucinations. He’d been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and had a history of substance abuse.He was arrested after letting loose animals and attacking a farmer and later released by the police, despite his bizarre behaviour. A short walk from the train he took to Exet
Dec 10, 2020 • 35:30
14. Piggy's Palace 2: Are serial killers intelligent?
An excavation reveals horrific truths about Robert Pickton. The bodies of dozens of women are unearthed on a pig farm, many of whom are sex workers and indigenous. Pickton’s defence team argues that he has a low IQ and was used as a pawn.On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how Canadian police failed indigenous women and talk to Professor Stephen Hart who worked with the prosecution in the Pickton case to discover what we can really know about one of Canad
Dec 3, 2020 • 27:43
13. Piggy's Palace 1: Why are witnesses reluctant?
Over 60 sex workers go missing in Vancouver. Robert Pickton is a pig farmer. There are stories of bloodied women's clothes on his farm and even a dead body hanging in a barn. But this isn’t enough for the police to search his property. Could he be to blame?On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss research on why people don’t always tell the truth and often retract police statements.This case is broken into two episodes. This is part one.Warning: This episode
Nov 26, 2020 • 31:07
12. Ward Four: Can you spot Munchausen by Proxy?
Hospitals are places of safety, where staff help people to get better. So the parents of four children left in the care of Beverley Allitt never imagined that she’d harm them. The 22 year old nurse was convicted of their murders and harming 9 others on Ward Four at the Grantham and Kesteven hospital in Lincolnshire in 1991. Police worked out that Allitt was the only person present for all of the unexplained collapses and that she had reported the key to the insulin fridge missing. Childhood fr
Nov 19, 2020 • 37:30
11. Plant Pot Killer: How do our biases blind us?
People have been going missing from Toronto’s Gay Village since the 70s. The gay community claims that the police are not taking the disappearances seriously enough. The pieces start to fall into place when one man goes missing and leaves a diary entry for that day saying “Bruce”. Police survey a Bruce McArther, a gardener and mall Santa. When they see him enter his flat with another man, they break the door down only to find a man handcuffed to his bed. On this episode of Bad People, presenter
Nov 12, 2020 • 35:09
Bad People is back
Murderers. Psychopaths. Sex offenders. Why do people do bad things? Bad People is back. Warning: Contains strong language and references to sexual violence and murder.Archive credits: This episode contains audio from CTV Television network and Global News. Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Paula McGrath and Caroline Steel Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Series Editor: Rami TzabarCommissioning Producer: Hannah Rose Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins C
Nov 5, 2020 • 2:28
10. Bad Blood: Should you fake it till you make it?
Elizabeth Holmes is the world’s youngest self made female billionaire. But her nine billion dollar startup disintegrated when the truth came out. On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how to tell if someone is trustworthy or not. Also, why we are so easily fooled by a pretty face and false promises.Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to sexual violence and child abuse.Presenters: Dr. Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Caroline S
Oct 1, 2020 • 38:17
9. Unimaginable: Can we understand paedophiles?
In the small Danish town Tønder, a man is talking to a friend when the conversation takes a dark turn. His friend asks him whether he wants to have sex with an 11-year-old girl. He immediately alerts the police.On this episode of Bad People, presenters Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss how violence is - and isn’t - passed down through generations. Also on the show, the psychology of child sexual abuse and exploitation, and why it’s so important to have difficult conversations about paedophilia.
Sep 24, 2020 • 30:22
8. The Land of Fires: What are green crimes?
Some 10 million tonnes of industrial waste has reportedly been dumped in a small Italian town over the past 30 years.The local mafia is suspected of securing lucrative contracts to dispose of waste and then dumping it illegally.Three decades ago doctors noticed that incidences of cancer in towns around the dumping site were on the rise.But the dumping is still happening.How can large scale crime like this take place right underneath our noses? What is it about green crime that makes us “ethicall
Sep 17, 2020 • 35:41
7. River Rat: What leads to false confessions?
Two friends knock on Angie Dodge’s door and find her lying on the floor. She had been raped, stabbed and her throat cut. The police arrive, take DNA samples from the scene and start rounding up suspects. Chris Tapp was 20 years old at the time and though his DNA did not match the crime scene samples, he was called in. A few questions turned into over 100 hours of interrogations and seven polygraph tests. By the end of it, Chris confesses to killing Angie – a crime he had no recollection of commi
Sep 10, 2020 • 35:41
6. When Children Kill: Should we imprison kids?
NOTE – Discussion of this case was correct at the time of broadcast. An update – which includes the exoneration of the three boys – is outlined below.Two six-year-old boys and a 5-year-old girl, Silje, are on a playground in the Norwegian town Trondheim. The next day Silje is found dead. The boys had punched and kicked the five-year-old girl before stripping off her clothes and leaving her to die. How does this Norwegian case, and it’s response, compare to the famous case of James Bulger in the
Sep 3, 2020 • 40:35
5. The Wrong Man: What causes misidentification?
A man breaks into Jennifer Thompson’s apartment, severs her phone wires and rapes her. Jennifer studies his face, hoping to remember enough details so that she can identify him later. In a police line-up, Jennifer is able to point out Ronald Cotton as her rapist and in two separate trials he is convicted of rape and burglary. He is sentenced to life in prison plus fifty-four years. It seems like the case is resolved. There’s only one problem: Cotton is innocent. On this episode of Bad People, pr
Aug 27, 2020 • 34:42
4. Cannibal Cop: What is your darkest fantasy?
Police officer Gilberto Valle opens the door to find his house surrounded by the FBI. His wife had discovered gruesome stories of kidnap and cannibalism that Valle had written about more than 100 women in an online forum.Among the stories, the wife found a detailed description of how Valle wanted to cook her alive and eat her. Valle argued that he never intended to hurt anyone and that it was all fantasy. He was sentenced to life in prison but was later released. He became known as the “cannibal
Aug 20, 2020 • 37:13
3. Remembering Monsters: Can we trust memories?
John was home alone with his father when he suddenly remembers being abused as a child. In a fit of rage he strangles his father to death.In 2017 John wrote to Julia from prison. He had an unnerving inkling – maybe he hadn't been abused by his father, maybe everything he thought he knew about why he killed his dad was wrong. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether we can trust our own memories and the consequences of ‘false memories’. They discuss the work
Aug 13, 2020 • 36:21
2. Murder in Peachland: When do women kill?
A high school house party is in full swing in the quiet town of Peachland, Canada. Suddenly, hysterical screams are heard. 16-year-old Ashlee Hyatt has been stabbed to death in the middle of the driveway.Piece by piece we learn about the girl who is ultimately convicted of manslaughter, relating it to the story of the Canadian “Barbie” serial killer, Karla Homolka and notorious Hungarian countess Elizabeth Báthory.Murder is a typically committed by men, and the victims are mostly other men. Glob
Aug 6, 2020 • 48:42
1. The Nightstalker: Who marries a serial killer?
In the summer of 1984 a serial killer was on the loose in Los Angeles. Richard Ramirez or the ‘night stalker’ as he would come to be known, broke into people’s houses as they slept and then proceeded to rape, torture and murder whoever was inside. He would sometimes draw satanic pentagrams on the victims’ bodies, and use their own blood to write messages on the wall.During his trial, Ramirez gained a large group of admirers, so-called ‘murder-groupies’. He would go on to receive hundreds of lett
Jul 30, 2020 • 37:13