Surface Level
Surface Level
A weekly show hosted by longtime friends Jordan, Damon, and Tony, explores the complexities of the Black and Queer experience. Through personal stories, dynamic guests, and curious conversations, this series offers a nuanced understanding of identity, race, and sexuality that goes beyond the surface level, with a touch of humor and a fearless willingness to challenge the norm.
Hiding In Plain Sight
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – where’s the line between secrecy and privacy?This National Black HIV/AIDS Day, we had the privilege of hosting Harlem Stage Presents: Surface Level Live, powered by Gilead Sciences. We are grateful for those who were able to join us in person, and we’re beyond excited to share the experience digitally with our Surface Level Insiders who couldn’t be there.During Part 2 of this special series, we are excited to welcome producer, writer, and director Patrik-Ian
Mar 5, • 54:43
The Age of Pleasure
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – is Queer pleasure a privilege?This National Black HIV/AIDS Day, we had the privilege of hosting Harlem Stage Presents: Surface Level Live, powered by Gilead Sciences. We are grateful for those who were able to join us in person, and we’re beyond excited to share the experience digitally with our Surface Level Insiders who couldn’t be there.During Part 1 of this special series, we explored our connection to pleasure in the age of PrEP. We discussed how modern
Feb 26, • 28:11
Beyond The Surface Level 10
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level?We end our growth journey and 10th season with a tradition we hold dear—responding to questions and comments from you, our Surface Level Insiders. We laugh, share personal insights, and push back against the inquiries and opinions shared throughout the season. We can't wait to share more parts of this journey with you. Until next time… stay curious.We know a lot, but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation
Feb 20, • 1:16:39
Gurl, Bring Back Gatekeeping
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – has access to the internet reduced the quality of art?In Season 1, we explored the desire for people to use the internet to stunt and fabricate their lives. In this episode, we take that conversation further by examining the positive and negative effects the internet has had on art. We're thrilled to welcome Durand Bernarr, Grammy-nominated singer, songwriter, and artist, to our Surface Level Family. Together, we explore the impact the internet has had on pe
Feb 14, • 42:33
Gurl, Release Your Wiggle
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – can freedom and the need for validation coexist? In Season 1, we explored authenticity and living in our truths was interrogated over and over again, and today we’re going to have a conversation about how perception and validation shape us—and the freedom we find when we finally let go and “release ya wiggle.” We’re thrilled to welcome Jonté Moaning true trailblazer in dance, fashion, and queer artistry.to the Surface Level family. We explore the need to per
Feb 5, • 50:24
Gurl, Stay Woke
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – how do we balance resistance and protecting our peace? In Season 1, we explored the sacrifices needed to make Black queer lives matter. Today, we ask: what does resistance look like in 2025? With political unrest, DEI rollbacks, and an election that left many Black Americans feeling isolated, how do we keep fighting without burning out? We reflect on the role of Surface Level in activism, how Black identity is shifting in politics, and the ways we’re protect
Jan 29, • 43:46
Gurl, You Good?
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – how does loneliness effect Black Queer identity? In Season 1, we explored the disconnect we sometimes feel towards our hometowns in pursuit of our dreams. Today, we go further, centering the loneliness many Queer individuals feel for existing outside of accepted norms. We are excited to welcome Keith “Icy” Parris, beauty influencer and disability advocate, to our Surface Level family. We explore how digital platforms have created both online community and fu
Jan 22, • 1:09:45
Gurl, We're Just Friends
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – can failed romance become friendship? In Season 1, we explored how we navigate platonic friendships. Today, we take it a step further by discussing the intersection of past romance and current friendship. We'll examine past relationships through the lens of our present partnerships. As queer people, many of our relationships overlap, and we'll explore how this affects our communication with current partners, as well as the line between trauma responses and t
Jan 15, • 43:21
Gurl, Who Raised You?
Damon, Jordan, and Tony are curious – who has shaped our Queer identities? In season one, we explored our relationships with our fathers. Today, we go further by bringing our “Gay Mothers” on the show to shed light on the people who have shaped our Queer journeys. We are excited to welcome Corey Baker, Anthony Woodburne, and George Gary III to our Surface Level family. Each of us has a separate conversation with the people who have been most impactful, especially during our years of Queer discov
Jan 8, • 56:48
Gurl, You Tried It
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious – when is criticism friend or foe? In season one, we discussed the environment of cancel culture. Today, we go further in examining public critique and when it is helpful—and when it is not. We are honored to welcome Lena Waithe, actor, producer, and screenwriter, to our Surface Level family. Together, we explore the societal boxes we are often defined by, the importance of cultivating community both on and off screen, how social media chatter does or does not af
Jan 1, • 1:18:19
Gurl, Who Gone Be The Boy
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious – where do we stand on toxic masculinity? In season one, we discussed the obsession with masculinity in the queer community—chasing "trade," butching it up around straight people, and learning to embrace our femininity. Today, let’s examine where we stand on toxic masculinity. We are excited to welcome Sailey Williams, creative director, photographer, and publisher, to the Surface Level family. Together, we explore the desires of "masc for masc" gays, the inclina
Dec 25, 2024 • 47:52
Gurl, Are Yall Open?
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious – how varied are our views on non-monogamy? We are excited to welcome you to Season 10 of Surface Level: Gurl, Grow Up, where each week we will revisit a different episode from Season 1 through the lens of growth. In this first episode, we explore the topic of romantic relationships and how our experiences with non-monogamy have evolved since recording our first season. We discuss the experiences that have led us to our current beliefs, whether relationships ar
Dec 18, 2024 • 53:33
The Personal Is Political Pt. 3
Damon is curious – how do anti-LGBTQ+ laws impact the Black Queer community, and what’s being done to fight back? In this final episode of our 3-part mini-series, Damon is joined by Dr. David Johns, CEO & Executive Director of the National Black Justice Coalition, Tabytha Gonzalez, Human Rights Specialist for the NYC Commission on Human Rights, and Olivia Lux, drag artist, actor, singer, and musician. Together, they dive into the legislative battles that disproportionately affect the Queer com
Oct 16, 2024 • 56:07
The Personal Is Political Pt. 2
Jordan is curious – how is politics shaping the daily lives of young Queer Americans? In this episode, we continue our 3-part mini-series with a focus on the youth vote and political engagement. Jordan is joined by Jay Jones, first Trans President of the Howard University Student Association, Kevin Ortega-Rojas, host of Here’s Why News and co-host of ByLatinMen Podcast, and Herby Revolous, culture critic and creator. Together, they dive into how young people are interacting with politics onlin
Oct 9, 2024 • 1:07:23
The Personal Is Political Pt. 1
Tony is curious – how will this election effect Queer healthcare? We welcome you to part one of our three-part miniseries, “The Personal Is Political,” in partnership with GLAAD. This series is centered around the current political landscape and will explore issues with a focus on Black and Queer communities. Tony is happy to welcome Lala B. Zannell, Senior Campaign Strategist at the ACLU; Kris Chessen, co-host of the Bad Queers Podcast; and Zach Stafford, journalist and co-host of the Vibe Ch
Oct 2, 2024 • 36:44
The Deliverance
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – when will folx learn to trust Black women? This week, we're thrilled to welcome director, producer, and screenwriter Lee Daniels to our Surface Level family. We’ll dissect the theme of trusting Black women in his new film, The Deliverance. We’ll also highlight some of the Black women who have helped shape our perspectives, address the unique challenges faced by Black trans women, and explore why Lee consistently creates complex work for this widely underrepr
Sep 4, 2024 • 58:11
Beyond The Surface Level 9
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us? With this episode, we close another chapter in the journey of Surface Level. For the ninth time, we open the floor to questions from you, our Surface Level Insiders. We explore a range of topics, including dating, sex, work life, parenthood, and more. It’s a fun way to wrap up this season. We’re excited to take some time to develop the next part of this story. Until then… stay curious. We know a lot but w
Aug 21, 2024 • 1:25:34
Pornhub
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – what role does porn play in our understanding of sex? We round out Throb, our season on sex, with an exploration of our past and present relationship with pornography. We discuss our initial introduction to porn and the positive and negative impacts it had on us as young adults. We then explore its role today, both privately and with a partner. We close by discussing sexual desires we have seen on screen that we are interested in exploring in real life. We k
Aug 14, 2024 • 38:06
Sorry, We're Not Sexually Compatible
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – how important is sexual compatibility? This week, we explore the value placed on sexual compatibility when considering romantic partners. We discuss our role in fulfilling our partners' various desires, how honest we have been about our own desires in new relationships, and methods of fulfillment that do not rely solely on our partners. Long-term partnerships are complex, with sex being just one aspect for many. Is sexual compatibility a deal breaker, or is it
Aug 7, 2024 • 45:18
Bedroom Playlist
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – are we ready for Queer men to sing about sex? This week, we're thrilled to welcome music artist serpentwithfeet to our Surface Level Family. We'll dive into the overtly sexual themes of his latest album, Grip, and examine how these themes have been received by the community at large. Are there differences in how we perceive romance versus sexual intimacy in music? And how can we support queer male artists with the same enthusiasm we show to beloved female pop
Jul 31, 2024 • 40:27
HIV Is Not A Crime
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – do HIV criminalization laws increase stigma? This week, we are excited to welcome Robert Suttle, a social justice advocate, to our Surface Level Family. We'll be discussing his personal experiences and advocacy work concerning the impact of HIV criminalization laws on Queer communities. Many of these laws, enacted in the 80s and 90s, do not align with current scientific understanding and perpetuate stigma and shame. HIV status is a private health matter and sh
Jul 24, 2024 • 43:42
Sexual Media Pt. 2
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – are you sexual on social media? We're thrilled to announce a two-part crossover episode with special guests, Busy Boys Uncensored. In part two, we welcome Jah and Sekani into our Surface Level family. Together, we delve into how sex and dating have permeated everyday social media apps. Is there shame associated with expressing sexuality or stepping outside of gender norms on these platforms? We conclude with some personal disclosure about aspects of our sexual
Jul 17, 2024 • 36:39
Sexual Media Pt. 1
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – are hookup apps in their flop era? We're excited to announce a two-part crossover episode featuring special guests, Busy Boys Uncensored. In part one, we welcome Mayce and Damontae into our Surface Level family. Together, we delve into the culture of "the apps" and their profound impact on our sexual interactions. We explore generational differences, questioning whether these platforms have made connections more or less meaningful, and ponder if we now have ac
Jul 17, 2024 • 32:45
Are You Clean?
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – what language should we use to discuss STIs? Part of maintaining a healthy sex life involves regular screenings for STIs. Over time, the way we discuss this topic has taken a negative turn. The question "are you clean?" has become synonymous with STI disclosure, adding public shame to the personal stigma people feel if they test positive. We discuss how to approach these conversations with sexual partners and address the stigma surrounding discussions about
Jul 10, 2024 • 43:43
Chasing The High
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – how do we reduce harm when drug use and Queer sex intersect? This week, as we delve into a sensitive topic, we welcome Andrea Rodriguez, Community Cultivation Coordinator for Dance Safe, to our Surface Level Family. This episode explores the realities of drug use among Queer folx and how to provide comprehensive information and support. Harm reduction destigmatizes drug use, and organizations like Dance Safe provide participants with fact-based knowledge abo
Jul 3, 2024 • 45:19
Sex Ed
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – what is medical fact vs fiction when it comes to Queer male sex? This week, class is in session, and we are thrilled to welcome Dr. Leo Moorei, the Medical Director for Clinic Services at the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health, to our Surface Level Family. We're diving deep into aspects of sexual hygiene, pleasure, and health with an individual who truly has the tea. We pride ourselves on creating a platform that is fun but also offers educationa
Jun 26, 2024 • 40:25
Healing In My Hoe Phase
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – how can casual sex be used as a tool for exploration and empowerment? During this dynamic episode, we welcome storyteller and activist Tarek Ali to our Surface Level Family. Tarek contributes to a conversation centered on the complex relationship that queer men have with casual sex. Casual sex is often viewed simply as a coping mechanism, but we'd like to interrogate that idea a bit further. Like everything in life, these are experiences from which there is
Jun 19, 2024 • 1:08:07
Hookup Horror Stories
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – what impact does hookup culture have on Queer male intimacy? For our ninth season titled “Throb,” we are embarking on a journey to explore all aspects of sex and sexuality. We kick off this journey with a topic familiar to queer men: hookup culture. Where have we found the most joy in hooking up, and what memories do we hope to bury? How does instant physical gratification affect our ability to connect emotionally with romantic interests? We also delve into
Jun 12, 2024 • 49:30
Beyond The Surface Level 8
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us? We made it through another cycle of the Surface Level journey. Through this season of reflection, we hope that we were able to introduce you some new figures or expand your knowledge of familiar faces. We believe truly that there is much to learn from our Queer ancestors and elders and are proud that we did our part in preserving their legacies. Now once again it’s your turn to ask the question so strap in
Feb 14, 2024 • 1:21:12
Fellow Travelers
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – with time can Queer love exist without shame? In this episode, we are excited to welcome actor Noah J. Ricketts to our Surface Level family. Exploring the themes of his incredible character Frankie from the miniseries Fellow Travelers we delve into the expanse of how Queer people express love. We close our season of reflection exploring how the themes of shame and personal triumph play equal roles in our journey to love ourselves and other Queer folx. This sea
Feb 7, 2024 • 49:45
C.R.E.A.M.
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – does cash rule everything around you? This week we talk about the ever-looming presence of capitalism. What experiences have shaped our relationship with money, have we ever felt looked down upon because of material things we lacked, how have we navigated mainly White professional spaces as Black Queer professionals. An often-quoted scripture says that the love of money is the root of all evil. We explore how we find the balance of meeting our economic needs
Jan 31, 2024 • 55:05
Queens Of Comedy
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – where is the line between funny and offensive? In this episode, we are joined by comedian, actor * writer Jay Jurdan. The artform of comedy has been in the spotlight in recent years as we all try and define the line between jokes and insensitivity. We explore the artform and the need for specificity in discussing its subjects. Is the concept of punching down a hard rule or should there be nuance instead of hard rules? Depending on who you ask those answers can
Jan 24, 2024 • 42:54
Beautiful Gowns Pt. 2
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is fear of femininity the thief of joy? This week we revisit our relationship with the expression of femininity in what we wear. Are we uncomfortable with expressing ourselves outside of the confines of the gender binary? Is that fear greater for men within our community than for women? We challenge what we’ve been taught but also interrogate who has the right to own this aesthetic in the future, if anyone at all. The beauty in finding new ways to outwardly e
Jan 17, 2024 • 44:02
Fake Smart, Real Dumb
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – what place does AI have in the creation of art? This week we bring a fresh topic to our listeners debating the benefits and concerns around artificial intelligence. We focus in on generative AI and its effect on the world of art. Should we look for ways to make the creation of art more efficient and democratize its various forms for more people? Should we view art forms and creation as sacred where the journey is as valuable as the outcome? The world is chang
Jan 10, 2024 • 48:23
Don't Be A Drag, Just Be A Queen
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – why are conservatives so scared of drag queens? In this episode, we are joined by drag phenom Olivia Lux. With her first-hand account from her time on Drag Race, we use the life and lessons of RuPaul in this week’s reflection. We explore our first impressions of the art form filled with surprise and delight. Olivia gives us insight into the people and experiences that crafted her personal journey. We dive deep into the current assault on drag from conservativ
Jan 3, 2024 • 45:12
Never Again, For Anyone
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – if your humanity is conditional is it humanity at all? Surface Level began as a show reflecting the lives, experiences, and conversation of its three host. To have a season live during the ongoing Middle Eastern conflict and not share our experience processing, learning, and developing our views towards the situation felt inauthentic. We do not believe we are experts on Middle Eastern relations but human beings witnessing a humanitarian disaster unfold in real
Dec 27, 2023 • 48:57
The Risk It Takes To Bloom
Jordan, Damon, & Tony are curious – what are the risks it takes to bloom into who we really are? In this episode, we're honored to be joined by trans activist and the author of "The Risk It Takes To Bloom: On Life and Liberation," Raquel Willis. To kick things off, we engage in an icebreaker game that pays homage to Sylvia Rivera, a trailblazing trans activist from the 60s and 70s. Each of us then reflects on the pivotal moments when we embraced our sexuality or gender identity. Diving deep int
Dec 20, 2023 • 1:05:07
Coming Out Is A Scam
00:00-Introduction 00:54-Recap since season 7 10:00-Unveiling the season 8 theme: "A Reflection" 10:46-Engaging in a game inspired by Little Richard 18:04-Exploring the toughest aspects of our journey to self-acceptance 29:37-Thoughts on creators who reject or conceal their queerness 35:51-Delving into what aspects of our lives we choose to keep private 41:25-Examining the question of oversharing in our stories 46:13-Celebrating and recognizing a queer individual we admire Jordan, Damon, & Tony
Dec 13, 2023 • 51:48
Make Me Water Pt. 2
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how have our views around relationships become more fluid? This week we offer a second look at fluidity; this time through the lens of relationship types. We welcome Jahad J.C. Carter, host of the Hopeless Romantic Society, back to the Surface Level table. A topic that is enriched through the technicolor lens of Queer experience; we are sure you all will have a lot to say. Are our views around relationships similar to how we grew up? Have they been varied based
Nov 1, 2023 • 52:06
Make Me Water Pt. 1
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how have our views around our sex lives become more fluid? Surprise we’re back for a special two-part bonus series! We’re adding the fluidity of water to our season, first tackling the topic of sexuality. We welcome Jahad J.C. Carter to our Surface Level Family. Host of the viral digital series, Hopeless Romantic Society, Jahad brings his special brand of humor and humanity to our show. We are excited to explore the ever-evolving topic of sexuality, and how our
Oct 31, 2023 • 47:04
Beyond The Surface Level 7
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us? Once again we sign off after this very special season grounded in earth, freed through wind, and emboldened by fire. We hope we’ve succeeded in our mission to make you more curious about topics that are not typically broached. Special thanks to all of our amazing guest in sharing their stories and experiences in making the journey of Surface Level that much more special. So here’s our love letter to you ou
Aug 2, 2023 • 1:15:22
The Girls Are Fighting
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious – how can healthy disagreement lead to personal growth? Closing the fire series, our penultimate episode for season seven explores what happens when tempers boil over. We recognize that even in our closest relationships there is bound to be conflict, but how we approach these situations make the difference in our lives. Will we accept uneasy conversations as an opportunity to grow or let ego take over? Will we assert ourselves to those around us while still show
Jul 26, 2023 • 48:54
Bad Bitches Only
Jordan & Tony are curious – how does aligning with traditional beauty standards benefit and harm our community? Pretty privilege, the hot-button topic that has been at the forefront of many kitchen tables has made its way to Surface Level. This week we welcome Obio Jones, Digital Creator and LGBTQIA+ Advocate to our Surface Level family. We ask ourselves, can we work against a system that we benefit from? The age of social media has thrust physical appearance into the forefront of anyone looking
Jul 19, 2023 • 49:22
Black Excellence Is A Scam Pt. 2
Jordan & Tony are curious – how can we broaden what it means to be Black and excellent? In this unprecedented bonus episode, we revisit our season opener, 'Black Excellence Is A Scam,' from a fresh perspective. While Damon is absent this week (rest assured, he'll be back in full effect next week!), we are excited to welcome Eboni K. Williams, an Author, Attorney, and Host, to our Surface Level family. Eboni, the first Black Housewife on Bravo's Real Housewives of New York City (RHONY), is a disr
Jul 12, 2023 • 1:31:22
Butch Queen On The Scene Pt. 2
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does the work of Queer nightlife curators impact our ability to find community? In closing out Wind series, we are excited to pay tribute to a space that has long represented freedom for Queer individuals: nightlife. This supersized episode of Surface Level is dedicated to the legacy of Black Queer nightlife giant, Frank Watson, who we lost earlier this year. We welcome 3 impressive curators in their own right to our Surface Level family, Joe Morris founde
Jul 5, 2023 • 1:07:38
The Stroll
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how is the quest to not just survive but thrive unique within Black Trans experience ? In an effort to continue to introduce you to amazing members of our community this week we welcome Tabytha Gonzalez to our Surface Level Family. A human rights professional and a woman with a story that deserves to be told we speak with her through the lens of new documentary The Stroll streaming on Max. The Stroll tells the story of trans women of color who’s economic survi
Jun 28, 2023 • 52:41
Pride & Prejudice
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how do we protect our joy when pride is under attack? We bring you something special edition of Surface Level for Pride 2023! We are happy to share our favorite pride memories, delve into a conversation around the attack on Queer representation from conservatives, and offer a little bit of Surface Level drag story time because you know we love the kids(well Jordan and Tony do). Our joy is not optional so with equal parts celebration and defiance we offer you
Jun 25, 2023 • 40:13
Parents Just Don't Understand 2
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – What was our parent’s journey in accepting our Queer identity? This episode will likely take the crown as our most personal level ever. This week we welcome Annette Epps, Teresa Randall, and Tony Jermin Sr, better known as our parents, to our Surface Level family. We explore the joy, surprise, pain, and confusion that defined our parents journey of accepting their Queer children. We hope that this episode serves as a possibility model for parents, children, and
Jun 14, 2023 • 1:09:10
Losing My Mind
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious - How can we dismantle mental health stigmas and foster understanding? In this episode as we navigate the complex terrain of mental health. We welcome Jarred Denzel Keller to our Surface Level Family. Jarred, a Mental Health Advocate and Senior Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, bears his truth for all to hear and see. Together, we shed light on the commodification of mental well-being, advocating for genuine understanding, compassion, and the urgent
Jun 7, 2023 • 50:30
Black Excellence Is A Scam
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is Black Excellence doing more harm than help? In this thought-provoking episode, we challenge the notion of "Black Excellence" and explore the unrealistic pressures that surround it. This special episode was recorded in front of a live audience, marking an exciting milestone for our podcast. Together, we seek to redefine the true meaning of success and offer a fresh perspective on achievement. Join us as we navigate this transformative exploration, inviting yo
May 31, 2023 • 42:36
EP 610 | Beyond The Surface Level 6
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us? Another season in the books for this journey that we call Surface Level. We have a blast connecting with our listeners through a series of audience submitted questions. We’re a bit off the cuff an we’re sure you’ll enjoy it. This season we’ve worked to create visibility for stories that aren’t often told. This isn’t good buy just a see you later as we prepare to offer more thoughtful conversations in the fur
Feb 8, 2023 • 1:16:25
EP 609 | We Wear The Mask
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – who are we…really? This season’s penultimate episode forces us to look within in a very meaningful way. First we give language to the guiding principles that define us at our core, then we assess our intersectional experience as Black Queer people regarding what parts of our identity we are most comfortable with or not. Finally, we reflect on how the experience of building a public platform has amplified truths we previously ignored. We spend this episode looki
Feb 1, 2023 • 36:45
EP 608 | Pretty Hurts
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – why are men afraid to embrace beauty? If you walk away with one thing from this episode, know that if beating that face makes you happy, do it! We welcome Sir John to our Surface Level Family. Sir John, Creative Director and global make-up artist, brings a fun and insightful perspective to this conversation. As men, we tend to shy away from things that make us feel soft. This episode highlights ways in which we can be more confident in those parts of ourselves
Jan 25, 2023 • 45:01
EP 607 | Black Pain For Sale
ordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is categorizing certain stories as trauma porn fair? This week is centered around the hot topic of “trauma porn”. We have seen various stories that highlight the painful history of Black Americans. Sometimes it feels that these are the only stories Hollywood wants to share about us. We interrogate the line between art sharing truth versus what can sometimes feel like a one dimensional depiction of Black life. As a people, we represent an infinite expanse of stor
Jan 18, 2023 • 39:39
EP 606 | Don't Ask Don't Tell
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does the approval of others lead us to hide parts ourselves? Today’s episode explores the idea of hiding parts of who we are to gain acceptance in various spaces. We welcome Elegance Bratton to our Surface Level Family. Elegance, the director of the critically acclaimed film The Inspection, speaks on his journey from Queer Marine to creative and how his identity colored relationships with people from his mother to superiors in the service. The title of this
Jan 11, 2023 • 50:27
EP 605 | I'm Never Drinking Again
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how can establishing healthier relationships with alcohol? We are all guilty of the proclamation “I’m never drinking again” after a rough night on the bottle. Maybe that was driven by a desire for a good time or from a need to escape darker emotions. We explore those dueling motives in this episode. From CDC guidelines on recommended drinking, to personal stories on when we decided our relationship with alcohol this episode has it all. Start the new year with u
Jan 4, 2023 • 41:39
EP 604 | You Can't Sit With Us
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does self-hate create toxicity among Black, Queer men? Our show often highlights external factors that stifle our community, but this week is focused on self-reflection. Growing up as Black, Queer men we develop many defense mechanisms that manifest as self-hate. This hate is often reflected in the othering of people in our community whose experiences are different than our own. Part of the advancement of Black, Queer people is the embrace of all members of
Dec 28, 2022 • 39:19
EP 603 | You Ain't Black!
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are the benefits of abiding by respectability politics worth the cultural sacrifice? Today’s episode gets into heated territory at times as we debate the benefits, or lack thereof, for following the rules of respectability politics. We welcome Kalen Allen to our Surface Level Family. Kalen, actor and media personality, adds a fresh perspective to our conversation through his rise to fame on the Ellen DeGeneres show. This is not an episode where we all agree, bu
Dec 21, 2022 • 1:10:18
EP 602 | Sexual Healing
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – has our fear of judgment stifled our sexual liberation? Safe spaces are important for Black Queer people and that idea extending to sexual environments is no different. We have some fun exploring our personal do’s and don’t in these situations and highlight how we as a community contribute to each other’s liberation or shame regarding sex. We know a lot but we don’t know it all, so join the conversation on social and let us know your thoughts.
Dec 14, 2022 • 29:37
EP 601 | Invisible Life
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – what can we do to make Black Queer stories more visible? In this season opener, we highlight the cultural moments that have made us feel most seen, we interrogate the internal and external factors limiting further visibility for our community, and we discuss our hopes for further advancement of the Black Gay agenda. We welcome Emil Wilbekin to our Surface Level Family. Emil, the multi-hyphenated Founder of Native Son, whose mission is to harness the collective
Dec 7, 2022 • 48:09
EP 512 | Beyond The Surface Level 5
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us? The finale to our fifth season further highlights our expanded commitment to community. We kick off by welcoming Steve Cruz, Strategic Giving Manager for the Ali Forney Center and Maddox Guerilla, an Ali Forney Center alum, to our Surface Level family. We were proud to raise money for AFC this season, an organization committed to protecting LGBTQIA+ youths from homelessness and empowering them to live indepe
Sep 7, 2022 • 1:26:10
EP 511 | We Can't Be Friends 2
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – what did we learn when traversing the toughest moments in our friendship? This week’s episode is quite introspective and discusses the evolution of our views on friendship in recent years. We play a game that gives our response to messy friendship scenarios, then discuss the experience of growing apart from friends, the rocky road we have traversed as friends in recent years, and how we are actively working to be better friends to those around us. This episode
Aug 31, 2022 • 51:59
EP 510 | Monkeypox, Chile
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how can healthcare information best be communicated to Black Queer folx? This week’s episode takes a relevant look at healthcare discussions that started during COVID are now being renewed with onset of Monkeypox. We start as always with a bit of silliness in an animal themed game of ridiculous choices, then dissect our long term or evolving trust of the medical system, debate if the response to Monkeypox by Queer people is reflective of a lesson learned or bas
Aug 24, 2022 • 37:24
EP 509 | Surface Level Live From Berlin!
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how is the Black German experience different from that of Black Americans? This week’s episode is a special glimpse into our lives as friends sharing highlights from our experience at Berlin Pride. During the episode we play a game of Bop or Flop with various experiences we had on the trip, dissect the key differences we see between pride in New York vs our experience in Berlin, and discuss our tips for staying camera ready even if we partied all night. Berlin
Aug 17, 2022 • 18:40
EP 508 | Bromance
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how can we foster non-sexual male intimacy? This week, we explore the idea of intimacy between men both Straight and Queer. We play a game rating potential partners based on fun dating scenarios, then discuss how the stigma around sexuality has impacted our relationships with Straight men, if sex and intimacy can healthily exist with non-partners, and how we are presently expressing non-sexual intimacy in our relationships with other men. We welcome Teron Beal
Aug 3, 2022 • 1:02:47
EP 507 | Death Becomes Her
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how have our experiences with grief shaped how we want to be remembered? This episode starts with a fun game titled “giving up the ghost,” then delves into a conversation that is equal parts serious and fun. We dissect our individual experiences with grief, any anxiety we have surrounding it, our hopes for who will take care of us in our golden years, and close by sharing nontraditional ways we would like to have our lives celebrated. We are continuing to find
Jul 27, 2022 • 37:59
EP 506 | No Means No
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how is consent defined and exercised in our sex lives? This week, the idea of consent is reflected upon both personally and for its larger implications on society specific, to Black Queer men. We delve into the idea of blurred consent and the need for an explicit “yes” at all stages of sexual intercourse. We then turn the lens on the broader community to discuss cases of sexual trauma and abuse towards Black Queer men and the lackluster response from law enforc
Jul 20, 2022 • 48:44
EP 505 | Parents Just Don't Understand
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how can Black parents better support their Queer children? This week we reflect on our experiences growing up in Black households - the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. We kick off with a game deciding if we need to “get the belt” to deal with rebellious children. Then launch into a discussion that focuses on past experiences but also forward-looking advice regarding tools that we wished our parents had when raising us. We welcome Dr. Lulu to our Surface
Jul 13, 2022 • 1:00:30
EP 504 | CocoDorm.com
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – do storylines in porn perpetuate harmful stereotypes of Black Queer men? This episode starts with a fun game where each host discovers the type of “deviant” they are through a series of questions regarding our kinks or lack thereof. We then delve into a conversation regarding our introduction to and relationship with pornography, and debate both the harmful and healing aspects of the inclusion of Black Queer men in porn. Like most work environments systemic rac
Jul 6, 2022 • 37:32
EP 503 | P-Valley
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how does media visibility affect how we see ourselves? This week’s episode is an absolute treat. We dissect the value of visibility within media and how it affects the way we view ourselves in real life. This week we are all living in Nicco’s world and the host of Surface Level are along for the ride. We welcome actor, Nicco Annan to our Surface Level Family. Nicco plays the beloved non-binary character, Uncle Clifford, on the hit show P-Valley. We play a game
Jun 29, 2022 • 1:12:35
Masc 4 Masc
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is a preference for masculinity inherently femmephobic? We kick off with a game imagining a world if we were girls, then launch into a discussion that centers around various facets of femininity as it relates to Queer cis men. We discuss our relationship with femininity, our opinions on “femme tops”, and what we are doing to make the world more accepting towards femininity in men. This is a fun take on a serious conversation that we are happy to bring you this
Jun 22, 2022 • 28:14
EP 501 | The Black Gay Agenda
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – what can the current political system do to better protect Black Queer people? We are excited to welcome you back with a brief update on our time off between seasons. We then launch into a fun gay reimagining of the government for and by Black people. Our discussion is then centered around how the current political landscape is causing physical, mental, and emotional harm towards Black Queer people. This week we welcome Executive Director and Co-Founder of Camp
Jun 15, 2022 • 57:46
EP 415 | Beyond The Surface Level 4
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – are you ready to go beyond the surface level with us? The finale to our fourth season features the theme of community. We kick off by welcoming LaQuann Dawson, Creative Director of MOBI, to our Surface Level family. We discuss his experience with the organization and the parallel missions of creative space and a platform for Black Queer folx. We then move into a game themed on the standout moments from this season. We wrap up with one of our most fun segments y
Feb 23, 2022 • 58:09
EP 414 | Shade Came From Reading
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is the art of shade helpful or harmful in our communities? We play a game deciding which common statements are shade vs “no shade”, discuss the history of “the dozens” and shade in Black communities, litigate if throwing shade for sport is based in insecurities, and discuss ways in which positive defense mechanisms we’ve developed help combat a world that views us as less than. Black communities often live by the phrase “laugh at our pain”. This statement is fu
Feb 16, 2022 • 23:08
EP 413 | Reading Rainbow
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – what do Black Queer stories look like when we write them ourselves? We play a literature-themed game, discuss our favorite Black Queer reads, discuss stories that we would write ourselves, then delve into a conversation around how Black Queer culture has informed the writing of our guest. This week we welcome New York Times bestselling author Michael Arceneaux to our Surface Level Family. Michael’s fun writing style takes a unique look at millennial problems, f
Feb 9, 2022 • 45:52
EP 412 | School Gayze
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how have HBCUs evolved to fit the needs of Queer students? We play a game that reminds us of our time at Howard, discuss the history and evolution of Queer communities at HBCUs with two educators, then end with speaking to current students and recent graduates about the hope they wish to see for future generations and the work that is still to come. This week we welcome educators Dr. Steven Mobley (Howard) & Dr. Kirstin Byrd (Hampton & Spelman), Transgender HBC
Feb 2, 2022 • 39:44
EP 411 | Case Of The Ex
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how have you worked to heal from failed romantic relationships? We play a game titled, “Are You That Somebody”, detailing our own red flags when romantically involved. We then enter a convo with many highs and lows around how we have dealt with the ending of relationships. We further discuss the lingering feelings and how we worked through those, then laugh a lot about on how social media comes into play and awkward run ins with former partners. A relationship
Jan 26, 2022 • 40:46
EP 410 | Stop Blasian Hate
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how can we strengthen the alliance between Black and Asian communities? We play a game of trivia highlighting Blasian artists, then launch into a discussion centered on the Asian American experience, and highlight ways in which we can create empathy between our communities. This week we welcome content creator and storyteller Johnathan Gibbs, artist and community organizer Will Lex Ham, and founder and creative director Steven Wakabayashi to our Surface Level F
Jan 19, 2022 • 52:24
EP 409 | Gayfishing
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – why is same gender affection viewed differently between men and women? We play a game of would you rather in relation to some Queer notable figures, discuss the societal acceptance of affection between women compared to men, and sound off on the divisive trend of heterosexual men playing into Queerness for engagement on social media. Over time the line between gender identity and sexuality will become increasingly blurred. That journey, like our show, requires
Jan 12, 2022 • 33:57
EP 408 | Plant Kween
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – have you explored self-care through plant care? We play a game centered around what changes we will and will not be making in the new year, we the delve into a discussion around better ways we can care for ourselves this year, and the success or lack thereof we’ve had at being “plant dads”. This week we welcome gardener, educator, LGBTQ+ activist Christopher Griffin affectionately known as @Plantkween to our Surface Level Family. They give us some helpful infor
Jan 5, 2022 • 46:08
EP 407 | Gay Dating For Dummies
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – what bad dating habits do you hope to leave in 2021? We play a game centered on common Jack’d scenarios, tell stories about our first time kissing another man, how our selectivity regarding partners has evolved over time, and bad dating habits we would like to leave in 2021. This week we welcome gay dating coach and couple’s counselor Lamont White to our Surface Level Family. We have a blast discussing the value of dating with intention and clearly communicatin
Dec 29, 2021 • 40:26
EP 406 | The Upper Echelon
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – how do socio-economic factors effect the relationships we have with other Black Queer folx? We play a game of high/low discussing the “luxuries” we can’t live without, give our take on the W.E.B. Dubois vs Booker T. Washington debate, rant about unwanted expectations individuals have when you begin to make more money, and litigate how economic status impacts our dating habits. Money and status are two things that can cloud the judgment of the best of us. Being
Dec 21, 2021 • 30:30
EP 405 | White Fragility
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – did anyone really learn to be an anti-racist? We play a ridiculously titled “You Ain’t Black”, discuss our thoughts on last years social “reckoning” one year later, and look internally at confidence we gained in speaking truth about injustice in any situation. This week we welcome author and political commentator Keith Boykin to our Surface Level Family. He discusses his favorite quote by Audre Lorde, his experience with activism in the 90’s, and gives importan
Dec 15, 2021 • 51:47
EP 404 | Unpopular Opinion
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious – is freedom of speech a right or responsibility? We play a game that exposes our own unpopular opinions, discuss how our thoughts of being cancelled have informed what we say on the podcast, talk about the polarizing nature of the court of public opinion, and how we manage relationships with people whose beliefs differ from our own. With the continuous outrage regarding public statements, this topic feels quite timely. Where is the line between accountability a
Dec 8, 2021 • 34:30
EP 403 | Beautiful Gowns
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious - how can fashion tell Black, Queer stories? This week Tony & Jordan fail miserably at a game of Black fashion trivia, we discuss our opinions on fashion vs style, our acceptance or lack of towards overtly fem clothing, and the personal and professional benefits of embracing fashion. This week we welcome Kinglsey Gbadedesin, CEO & Founder of K.ngsley to our Surface Level family. Kinglsey shares his experience launching a brand that grew out of his desire to give
Dec 1, 2021 • 41:38
EP 402 | The Nigerian Underground
Jordan, Damon & Tony are curious - how do anti gay laws affect your travel? We poke fun at the joy and pain of being podcasters, discuss our experiences traveling the world as Queer people, and have an in depth conversation with our guest regarding the Queer experience in Nigeria. This week we welcome OKTimileyin, activist, cast member of HBO Max’ Legend of the Underground and Host of Nigeria’s Queercity Podcast. Timi shares his experience navigating family and broader society while being Queer
Nov 24, 2021 • 36:07
EP 401 | Friends Without Benefits
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious, do the best relationships start from platonic friendships? We play a game of never have I ever, assess the environments where Queer people meet, discuss the benefits of or lack there of in prioritizing platonic friendship over romantic attraction, and share our thoughts on casual sex between friends. We are excited to welcome you back with a fun topic on which we hardly agree. This one is a hot button within a community in which the dating and friendship pool is
Nov 17, 2021 • 27:11
Season 4 Trailer
Jordan, Tony & Damon are Black, Queer, and Curious.Welcome to season 4 of Surface Level!#StayCurious
Nov 16, 2021 • 0:53
EP 315 | Beyond The Surface Level 3
Damon, Jordan & Tony are Black, Queer, and Curious. What a ride season 3 of Surface Level has been! We’ve covered everything from sexual health, to hip hop, to gender roles in Queer relationships. We laughed, we debated, and now we are taking a look back. This week we answer questions asked directly from our Surface Level Insiders and discuss current events related to some of the topics. And like always, we find time to play a few games. This season we took the approach of amplifying as many voi
Jul 14, 2021 • 1:37:35
EP 314 | No Face, No Case
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the impact the “DL” narrative has had on both Queer and heterosexual communities. The idea of DL culture is one born out of a false narrative about Black Queer men during the AIDS crisis. Is there a difference between being “DL” and simply not being out? We discuss the problematic history of the term DL, if men are responsible for disclosing that they are involved with other men to a female partner, why the idea of DL men is fetishized in some Queer circles
Jul 7, 2021 • 44:15
EP 313 | 10's Across The Board
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the historic role Black & Brown trans women have played in ballroom culture. For our final Pride Month episode, we are shining a light on the experiences of trans women of color. How has ballroom served as a safe space for Black & Brown trans women? We decide which outside activities we are excited about and which ones need to be chopped, our impression of the ballroom community, how the success of shows like Pose and Legendary have affected ballroom, how “
Jun 30, 2021 • 59:51
EP 312 | Gays As Old As Time (Bonus EP)
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious how age impacts our perception of the world as Black, Queer men. In addition to this week’s regular episode we are releasing a bonus with messages from the host and our guests to our ten year old selves. We hope you enjoy, and please share with any younger person searching for a bit of guidance.
Jun 28, 2021 • 10:53
EP 312 | Gays As Old As Time
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious how age impacts our perception of the world as Black, Queer men. This episode features the stories of Black, Queer men ages 25-64. What role does age play in how we view the topics of relationships, Blackness, professionalism, Queer health, and Ageism. This week we test a new format where we asked several men the same 10 questions and shape our conversation around their responses. We cover everything from dating & sex, to how they navigate spaces that are not alw
Jun 23, 2021 • 1:04:55
EP 311 | Affirmative (In)Action
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about how last year’s social justice movement affected Black Queer professionals. The social uprising sparked by the murder of George Floyd coincidentally fell in line with the launch of Surface Level. How did this impact our views towards the roles we play at work? We play a work from home themed game, discuss the action or lack there of in response to the events of last year, we revisit statements we made regarding assimilating during our season 1 episode title
Jun 16, 2021 • 42:42
EP 310 | Masculine Sissy
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the value of masculinity among Queer men. The debate regarding the embrace of masculinity is ongoing within Queer communities. How do we embrace our masculinity while recognizing the value our of femininity? We chime in on who we think the ultimate masculine sissy is, the uneasiness around the embrace of femininity, how masculinity and femininity play into how we interact with potential partners, heteronormative ideas that we embrace, and if we accept that
Jun 9, 2021 • 55:12
EP 309 | Blatino Oasis
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the intersection of the Black & Latinx Queer experience. Throughout Pride Month, our goal is to amplify a multitude of Queer voices, starting with a crossover episode with BYLATINMEN The Podcast. What are the common and unique experiences of Black & Brown Queer folx? We play a game of superlatives between the two shows, chime in on pop culture, discuss the unique experiences of Latinx Queer people, discuss the need for races to support causes other than the
Jun 2, 2021 • 1:11:15
EP 308 | Pay For Play
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the fact and fiction regarding sex work. This episode covers the shame attached to what many consider the oldest profession. Why does American society attach such stigma to the sex work industry? We discuss the motivation behind entering the field of sex work, new laws focused on the decriminalization of the craft, the value placed on the lives of sex workers, the positive impact of the industry, and the overall role the industry is playing in normalizing s
May 26, 2021 • 55:28
EP 307 | Kiss With A Fist
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about intimate partner violence within gay relationships. This episode delves into a topic not often spoken about among men in our community. What unique factors are at play when intimate partner violence includes two gay men? We start light, playing a game we coined as the lesser of two evils. We then progress into a conversation regarding the stigma attached to violence in male relationships, red flags in relation to violent partners, any experiences we have pe
May 19, 2021 • 45:53
EP 306 | Skinny Legends Only Pt. 2
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the individual experiences people have with their bodies. This episode revisits a topic that sparked a ton of feedback from last season, our relationship with our bodies. Are conversations around body image too binary? We discuss our personal insecurities (or lack thereof), debate what we got right and wrong in part one of this discussion, the motivation behind how we treat our bodies, privilege in conversation around body image, and how we’re working throu
May 12, 2021 • 44:56
EP 305 | Adam & Steve
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about homophobia within the Black Church. This episode covers the institution that has had a huge impact on the history of African Americans, the Black Church. Why has the Black Church been so slow to openly embrace its Queer members? We discuss our favorite gospel club anthems, our history going (or not) to church, our views on spirituality vs religion, and delve into our guests journey from homophobic seminary student to a leader in affirming Queer people withi
May 5, 2021 • 1:08:57
EP 304 | Beatz, Boyz & Barz
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about homophobia within hip hop. This episode covers the music we love, with a culture that doesn’t love us back. Why is homophobia in hip hop still so prevalent? We try our hand at hip hop trivia, discuss heterosexual male rappers embrace of gender bending fashions, question the embrace of female rappers by Queer men, acknowledge that being Queer can sometimes eclipse an artist’s talent, and we get a preview into the upcoming work of a very special guest. During
Apr 28, 2021 • 52:59
EP 303 | Before He Cheats
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the cure for infidelity. This episode covers our experiences being on the giving and receiving end of infidelity. Do we as a society place so much emphasis on monogamy that we are setting ourselves up for failure? We play a game of infidelity-themed superlatives, discuss past infractions we’ve committed in relationships, what we’re looking forward to in future potential relationships, and society’s love of monogamy while shaming less traditional relationshi
Apr 21, 2021 • 50:50
EP 302 | Not Your "Gay" Best Friend
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the experiences of Queer people with cishet allies. This episode breaks down our experiences with cishet individuals in our own lives. How can the most well-intended allies still perpetuate homophobia? We discuss coming out to cishet friends and family members, the differences in our relationships with straight men vs straight women, the fetishization of Queer men by women, parental aversion to having Queer children, and we share some advice for when you in
Apr 14, 2021 • 38:04
EP 301 | ParTy N Play
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the intersection of sex and health in the Black & Queer community. This episode builds on the success of “Undetectable”, our top performing episode from season two, by further delving into the topic of sexual practices and health. How have advancements in HIV treatment and prevention influenced our communities sex habits? We kick off with what we’ve been up to during our time away. Then things get real as we discuss our sexual habits in a “post-PrEP” world.
Apr 7, 2021 • 59:46
Season 3 Trailer
Damon, Jordan & Tony are Black, Queer, and Curious.They say the third times a charm welcome to season 3 of Surface Level!#STAYCURIOUS
Apr 6, 2021 • 1:18
EP 210 | Beyond The Surface Level 2
Damon, Jordan & Tony are Black, Queer, and Curious. Curiosity and vulnerability, the latter being the true addition to this season. Once again, we take a look back at the journey we know as Surface Level. We revisit some of the seasons most fun moments while delving deeper into some of its most personal. From barbershops, to sex, to politics we covered quite the range of topics. We gave the reigns over to our friend Corey Townsend, accomplished journalist, and correspondent, who put us in the ho
Dec 28, 2020 • 1:24:54
EP 209 | onlyfans.com/surfacelevel
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the shame we attach to sexual desire. This episode discusses a topic no one wants to publicly talk about while privately partaking. How has the shame attached to sex affected our exploration of it as Black Queer men? We discuss our sexual history, desires we have that we were once ashamed of, the things we wished we knew as baby gays, and play a fun game of naughty superlatives. This episode is not one to be missed, we laugh from beginning to end while addr
Dec 22, 2020 • 32:30
EP 208 | Butch Queen On The Scene
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the joy and pain the Queer social scene can create. This episode discusses our experiences in Queer social settings. Do the current social options represent the interest of too narrow a selection of Queer men? We discuss memorable club experiences, our ideal social settings, anxieties we face in Queer social settings, the Harlem social scene, and the defining elements of an upper echelon Queer social experience. We welcome Leon Curry to Surface Level. He is
Dec 16, 2020 • 42:00
EP 207 | Skinny Legends Only
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about how we have contributed to the system of fatphobia. This episode discusses the pressures Black Queer men face in idolizing certain body types. How can we as a culture do more to stop the othering of fatness? We discuss key news headlines, the definition of fatphobia, the internal and external pressures to look “desirable”, the role appearance plays in how Queer men create friend groups, and how to speak openly about your own physical insecurities without us
Dec 9, 2020 • 58:19
EP 206 | No Lesbians Allowed
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the experiences of Black Queer women. This episode discusses how Black Queer women fit into the broader movement for the liberation of all Queer people. Can we as Queer men be doing more to understand and support Queer women? We discuss Queer women in entertainment, the positive and negative effects of the LGBTQIA umbrella, the role Black women play in the feminist movement, the differences in the gay and lesbian social scenes, and get playful while being s
Dec 2, 2020 • 50:49
EP 205 | Broke With Expensive Taste
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about how to create generational wealth. This episode discusses the effects of long and short term financial investments. Do we care too much about immediate gratification in making financial decisions? We discuss the luxuries we can’t live without, the value of social interactions in professional development, the desire to possess status symbols, the worst financial decisions we’ve made, and how we’ve gotten a better handle on our spending over time. Don’t be fo
Nov 25, 2020 • 46:34
EP 204 | Undetectable
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the ongoing stigma regarding HIV. This episode discusses our lived experiences as Black Queer men with and without HIV. How can we collectively work to remove the stigma and educate people about HIV in 2020? We discuss our individual HIV statuses, the shift in our perception of HIV over the years, the intersection of art and activism, the science behind being undetectable, the role of negative individuals in removing stigmatization, and any advice for indiv
Nov 18, 2020 • 53:59
EP 202 | A Little Off the Top
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the queer experience in the traditionally cishet barbershop environment. This episode discusses our interactions with the barbershop as youth and adults. Do we have a reason to feel unwelcomed in this environment or is it all in our heads? We discuss our favorite past hairstyles, rap culture in barbershops, how we engage in shop talk, queer expression and acceptance in barbershops, and the ideal space if we were to create one ourselves. The shop is a part o
Nov 11, 2020 • 34:11
EP 201 | Haus of Representatives
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about what is next for a nation divided. This episode discusses our current engagement with politics in what will surely go down as the grand finale to one of the most tumultuous presidential terms in history. Is this America, or an anomaly in the journey of this country? We discuss the presidential election, Black women’s role in politics, the flood of new Queer politicians at all levels of government, how money affects politics, and all things Queen Kamala Harr
Nov 11, 2020 • 49:23
Surface Level Season 2 Trailer
Damon, Tony, and Jordan are back for Season 2!We promise to keep it Blackitty Black, very Queer, full of laughs, and always smart.So if you’re curious…this is Surface Level.
Nov 11, 2020 • 1:04
EP 203 | Sup? Looking? Into?
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the expectations associated with dating in our thirties. This episode discusses what we look for in both casual and serious encounters with other Queer men. Are our expectations on dating becoming unrealistic or more clear as we age? We discuss hookup culture, Grindr interactions, shifting dating expectations, the value we place on finding forever partners, and when to establish relationship needs with a new partner. Dating in New York City is the best of t
Nov 11, 2020 • 48:03
EP 10 | Beyond The Surface Level
Damon, Jordan & Tony are Black, Queer, and curious. This episode discusses what this experience has meant to us and revisits the season through the lens of crowd sourced questions. We discuss our favorite episodes, the friction between Damon and Jordan, reactions to he podcast from friends, family, and colleagues, any strain this project has placed on our friendship, adjustments we made due to quarantine, and the biggest impact Surface Level has had on the three hosts. We began this process with
Aug 5, 2020 • 55:30
EP 9 | Call Tyrone (And My Therapist)
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about what defines “successful” relationships. This episode discusses our experiences with dating in New York City. Are there lessons to be learned and applied to every relationship or should each experience be evaluated on its own? We discuss music therapy, our longest previous relationships, what dating life has looked like recently, our views on monogamy, and the most surprising things we’ve learned from previous entanglements. Relationships are centered on cl
Jul 29, 2020 • 38:42
EP 8 | Is It Because I'm Black-ish?
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about privilege within the Black community. This episode discusses the nuance of Black experience. Are there set topics where we should focus on community more than individually? We discuss the “Blackest" cultural experiences, our connection to the places where we grew up compared to New York City, privileges we possess, the balance of checking our privilege compared to dimming our light, and just a few Black cards we’d like to revoke. According to Joe Biden, if
Jul 22, 2020 • 39:37
EP 7 | We Can't Be Friends
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the give and take in defining friendship. This episode discusses the expectations we place on friendship. Is there a set definition of our relationships with others or does it evolve over time? We discuss each other’s most annoying traits, the line between friend and associate, rules or lack there of around friends and exes, when it’s time to break up with a friend, and how our internal struggles manifest in our relationships with others. The term friend is
Jul 15, 2020 • 43:47
EP 6 | The Magical Negro Is OOO
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about why being Black at work is so hard. This episode discusses the part of our lives where code switching is not only encouraged but often expected. Are the expectations of Black employees too high for any human to consistently meet? We discuss our experiences in corporate America, assimilation and if it is the route to success, the pressure to represent our entire race in the workplace, and how we can make being Black at work less rare. Far too often in New Yo
Jul 8, 2020 • 40:26
EP 5 | #STUNTQUEENZ
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the price of fabricating our lives for Instagram. This episode discusses the life we live compared to the one we feel compelled to portray on social media. How often are sharing real moments vs ones created, purely for the currency of likes? We discuss our Instagram flirting styles, online stunts that we’ve personally pulled, influencer culture, the negative effects of creating a false digital persona, and digital content we love. The world is moving furthe
Jul 1, 2020 • 37:28
EP 4 | Dad, I’m A Bottom
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the acceptance of queerness among Black men. This episode discusses coming out to our fathers and the impact it had on each of our relationships. Can there be healing from a relationship splintered from coming out? How have our dads fought against the stigma of homophobia among Black men? We discuss celebrity dads we love, the joy and pain of coming out to our fathers, censoring our sexuality around other Black men, and the types of dads we would like to be
Jun 23, 2020 • 35:53
EP 3 | Last Scene & Last Season
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the space we give artists to be flawed before cancellation. This episode evaluates artists for who they are as people. In the age of social media the expectation is that people let you into their lives. They craft their persona in a way that exposes their talent but also their flaws. And we take every opportunity to evaluate each of them. We discuss artists we couldn’t cancel, a certain host’s obsession with Keri Hilson, the social responsibility of public
Jun 12, 2020 • 34:18
The Trade Is Ruining My Life
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the value of masculinity. This episode explores the masc obsession, specifically in the queer community. We work, we worship, we date, we make love, we exercise, we live all through the guise of our relationship with and the external opinions of where we land on the “butch” scale. We discuss gentlemen we’d keep, freak & delete, chasing trade, butching it up when we’re around the heteros, learning to love our femininity, and the parts of the journey
Jun 12, 2020 • 25:47
EP 1 | The Politics Of Quarantine
Damon, Jordan & Tony are curious about the world we could create if we did not fear sacrifice. Our first episode comes at a moment defined by a health crisis that disproportionately affects Black people, and police violence towards Black people…or what our community would call a normal day in America. We discuss the strain of being confined to our New York City apartments for months, shifting to a way of life in which we were forced to be socially distant(ish), our favorite social media breakout
Jun 12, 2020 • 40:06