Dave interviews noted British journalist and documentarian Lucy Ash about her new book, The Baton and the Cross: Russia's Church from Pagans to Putin. They discuss intricate relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church and the modern Russian state. The interview explores the history of Orthodoxy in Russia, tracing its origins from medieval times through periods of upheaval, including the Bolshevik Revolution and the Stalinist era. Lucy discusses the personal connections that inspired her to write the book, her early perceptions of the church's potential for good, and how current events are influenced by historical precedents. The conversation examines key figures such as Patriarch Kirill and President Vladimir Putin, highlighting how orthodoxy has been used to underpin Russian nationalism and policy. The dialogue also touches on the broader social impacts of this relationship, including attitudes towards LGBTQ+ issues and women's rights. The interview concludes with reflections on Putin's personal religiosity and his regime's strategic use of the church to consolidate power. The Baton and the Cross Lucy Ash on X Lucy Ash Website 00:00 Introduction and Personal Connection to Russia 03:55 Historical Background of the Orthodox Church in Russia 08:27 Ivan the Terrible and the Oprichniki 11:40 Peter the Great and Catherine the Great's Influence 29:13 The Bolshevik Revolution and Its Impact on the Church 40:54 Smuggling Bibles into Eastern Europe 42:33 Religion and State in Russia 44:06 Russian Mysticism and Superstition 46:09 Orthodoxy and Russian Identity 47:44 LGBTQ Issues and Russian Orthodoxy 50:49 Pussy Riot and Church-State Relations 53:03 Domestic Violence and the Church 57:01 Putin's Spirituality and the Church 01:00:45 The Military Cathedral 01:06:47 Conclusion and Final Thoughts