David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH) is a legendary programmer, creator of Ruby on Rails, co-owner & CTO of 37signals that created Basecamp, HEY, & ONCE, and is a NYT-best-selling author (with Jason Fried) of 4 books: REWORK, REMOTE, Getting Real, and It Doesn’t Have To Be Crazy At Work. He is also a race car driver, including a class-winning performance at the 24 hour Le Mans race. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep474-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/dhh-david-heinemeier-hansson-transcript CONTACT LEX: Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact EPISODE LINKS: DHH’s X: https://x.com/dhh DHH’s Website: https://dhh.dk/ Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org/ 37signals: https://37signals.com/ DHH’s books: Rework: https://amzn.to/44rSKob Remote: https://amzn.to/44GFJ91 It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work: https://amzn.to/46bzuwx Getting Real: https://amzn.to/4kzoMDg SPONSORS: To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: UPLIFT Desk: Standing desks and office ergonomics. Go to https://upliftdesk.com/lex Lindy: No-code AI agent builder. Go to https://go.lindy.ai/lex LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex Shopify: Sell stuff online. Go to https://shopify.com/lex NetSuite: Business management software. Go to http://netsuite.com/lex OUTLINE: (00:00) – Introduction (00:58) – Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections (08:48) – Programming – early days (26:13) – JavaScript (36:32) – Google Chrome and DOJ (44:19) – Ruby programming language (51:30) – Beautiful code (1:09:31) – Metaprogramming (1:12:52) – Dynamic typing (1:20:10) – Scaling (1:33:03) – Future of programming (1:50:34) – Future of AI (1:56:29) – Vibe coding (2:05:01) – Rails manifesto: Principles of a great programming language (2:29:27) – Why managers are useless (2:38:48) – Small teams (2:44:55) – Jeff Bezos (3:00:13) – Why meetings are toxic (3:07:58) – Case against retirement (3:15:15) – Hard work (3:20:53) – Why we left the cloud (3:24:04) – AWS (3:33:22) – Owning your own servers (3:39:35) – Elon Musk (3:49:17) – Apple (4:01:03) – Tim Sweeney (4:12:37) – Fatherhood (4:38:19) – Racing (5:05:23) – Cars (5:10:41) – Programming setup (5:25:51) – Programming language for beginners (5:39:09) – Open source (5:48:01) – WordPress drama (5:59:18) – Money and happiness (6:08:11) – Hope