When 80-year old Kathleen is called up by a nice man from her computer company she does not suspect foul play. And when he tells her that she is owed a refund, she follows his instructions.Scams costs victims millions every year and the problem is only growing. “Scam-baiter” Jim Browning has had enough of scam-calls and has decided to use their own tricks against them. It is illegal and dangerous work. What Jim discovers is chilling. Scams are a huge industry that involves large call centres and thousands of “employees” that are evaluated and promoted based on their ability to scam unsuspecting victims out of their life savings.On this episode, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss what might motivate someone to earn their living from scams; and what motivates others, like Jim Browning, to take the law into their own hands. We discover the chilling fact that even the most tech-savvy and internet literate can become the victim of a scam.CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr Lara Frumkin and Dr James Munro #BadPeople_BBC Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.