Can our national and international legal systems be harnessed in service of life, to put the brakes on the worst excesses of capitalism and slow the annihilation of our eco-sphere?  Stop Ecocide International exists explicitly to make this happen and this week, we talk to Jojo Mehta, co-founder and Executive Director of the movement. If we're going to stop capitalism's harms to the planet, we have to build road blocks into the current system that will be recognised by those who make the harms happen and one of the key ways to do this is to criminalise activities that are wiping out the future in real time - if we're using Joanna Macy's concept of the Three Pillars of the Great Turning, this is one of the most effective Holding Actions imaginable (the other two pillars are 'Systems Change' and 'Shifting in Consciousness', which we explore in many other episodes. Today, though, we're exploring this ultimate Holding Action and our guest is right at the forefront of this. Jojo Mehta is co-founder and Executive Director of Stop Ecocide International (SEI)  which she and the late pioneering barrister Polly Higgins (1968-2019) set up in 2017.  SEI is the driving force at the heart of the growing global movement to make ecocide an international crime. Their core work is supporting diplomatic progress and fostering global cross-sector support for this. To this end, they collaborate with diplomats, politicians, lawyers, corporate leaders, NGOs, indigenous and faith groups, influencers, academic experts, grassroots campaigns and individuals, positioning themselves with great clarity at the meeting point of legal evolution, political traction and public narrative. As a result, they are uniquely placed to track, support and amplify the global conversation. This conversation took us in many directions, exploring the legal implications of the law, but beyond it to the potential it has to counter the iniquities of the States Investor Dispute Settlements and how it could bolster Indigenous groups seeking protections for their ancestral lands.  We looked at the ways the law is being framed and where it and laws like it have already been enacted, how it's progressing in the International Criminal Court and what the ultimate aims are in using it as a deterrent, but also as a cover for those in the extractive, destructive industries - which, let's face it, is pretty much every industry - who want to act, but are constrained by their requirement to push always for profit regardless of the impact on people and planet.  Those who drive them may not care about the little people - you and me - but they care about themselves and if they face actual gaol terms, then their incentive structures become quite different. As Daniel Schmachtenberger so often says, 'Show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcome' - Stop Ecocide International exists radically to shift the incentive structure and it's making real headway.  If you despair about the ways we can change the trajectory of the system, if you think our chances of veering the bus away from the cliff's edge are small, then this is the spark of light you need in the gloom - it's genuinely encouraging. Stop Ecocide International Ltd https://www.stopecocide.earth/stop-ecocide-international-ltdStop Ecocide Foundation https://www.stopecocide.earth/sefIndependent Expert Panel for the Legal Definition of Ecocide https://bell-harmonica-g83z.squarespace.com/legal-definitionSEI on Twitter  https://x.com/EcocideLawJJo on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jojo-mehta/Stop Ecocide Film on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZw0HWM9n8IGuardian Article showing real progress - yay!  https://www.theguardian.com/law/article/2024/sep/09/pacific-islands-ecocide-crime-icc-proposal