Bitcoin culture wasn’t always about eating red meat. The desire for L2s, DeFi, and experimentation are part of Bitcoin’s earliest roots, and those are the areas that the Asymmetric Bitcoin DeFi Venture Fund is investing in. In our chat at ETH Denver, creators Dan Held and FarmerJoe took me through the history. In this conversation, we discuss: Being early to Bitcoin DeFi Why Dan and FJ ONLY buy into projects with tokens Why money isn’t Bitcoin’s only use case Old vs new Bitcoin maximalism Whether Bitcoin cycles will continue This episode is powered by Best In Slot—the leading API for Ordinals and BRC20 data aggregation and indexing. TIMESTAMPS__ 00:54 When did Dan learn about “Bitcoin DeFi”? 02:49 Dan’s marketing role for TrustMachines 05:32 FarmerJoe’s entry to Bitcoin DeFi 09:32 FarmerJoe’s early entry to Ordinals 10:42 Tokens on Bitcoin were inevitable 13:00 Ethereum’s flawed NFTs 15:30 Dan’s excitement for Taproot Wizards 18:00 Joe’s angel investments in Bitcoin 20:30 The Asymmetric Bitcoin DeFi Venture Fund 22:40 Only investing in protocols through tokens 23:30 Do Bitcoin L2s need tokens? 24:50 Will Bitcoin L2 tokens be *on* Bitcoin? 27:30 Gatekeeping of Bitcoin L2s 29:45 Blockchains are countries 32:00 Money isn’t Bitcoin’s only use case 35:00 “Speculation is a core driver of adoption” 36:30 Do Bitcoiners really want DeFi? 38:50 Holding ETH erodes your value – not BTC  40:30 Discrete Log Contracts (DLCs) are sooo cool 41:50 Is the whole world collapsing back to Bitcoin? 42:45 Dan on maxis and the moralization of Bitcoin 44:55 Bringing crypto back to Bitcoin 46:55 We always wanted to scale Bitcoin in layers 50:30 Isabel defends the Bitcoin maxis 52:20 Bitcoin began as speculation and drugs 54:15 Four pillars of Asymmetrics investment focus 57:40 Arch - Asymmetric’s first investment 59:00 Will Bitcoin cycles continue? 01:00:50 Bitcoin will turn risk-off long-term 01:03:05 Bitcoin still has some risk element 01:04:18 Do halvings matter for cycles now? >https://x.com/danheld  >https://x.com/FarmerJoe0x  >https://x.com/goasymmetric  LISTEN / SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST: › YouTube:    / @bitcoinrails   › X/Twitter: https://x.com/isabelfoxenduke  › Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5uPrBxvD691TpTqjijudkO?si=571634b88d574911 CONNECT WITH ISABEL: › Email: bitcoinrails@gmail.com › LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabel-foxen-duke-87272423/  › X/Twitter: https://x.com/isabelfoxenduke Bitcoin #Ordinals #BRC20 #Runes #BitVM #zkp