If Climate Change is a failure of the imagination and this is a time when we need to be at our most imaginative, how can we change the trajectory of our falling imaginations? Rob Hopkins of the Transition Town movement, has explored the depths of our imagination and creativity.  Our society is a dis-imagination machine.  But we can reverse it. Rob Hopkins, author of 'From What Is to What If?', offers an answer.   In this podcast, we explore the ways that all of us could combine to create a new future - ways to recharge and restart and give space to our imaginations.  Rob offers a vision of a future and actual examples of change happening now from the Civic Imagination Office in Bologna, with its pacts of actually doing things, that has inspired other towns in the UK to do the same, to the Doughnut Economics model and the ways people engage to make a difference. Here, we have  a wealth of radically transformative ideas that we can engage with on a daily basis to transform ourselves, our communities and our planet. Links Rob Hopkins site https://www.robhopkins.net/Buy the book from Rob's site: https://www.robhopkins.net/the-book/Rob's podcast Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/fromwhatiftowhatnextRadio 4 Food Program 'Sitopia' https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000m49jKate Raworth Doughnut Economics model https://www.kateraworth.com/doughnut/AG_S3_P8_RobHopkins_12oct20.mp3Manda: So Rob Hopkins on our second try at the other end of a lockdown- the other end of first lockdown - welcome to the Accidental Gods podcast. How is life down in Devon? Rob: Life is kind of I don't know. I almost feel like I'm emerging from lockdown as a different person than I went in. It feels very strange kind of a process. And next week I'm going away to France to go and do some talks and stuff, which was supposed to happen in April or May and was cancelled. But actually, I'm sort of feeling that in the last six months, the furthest I've been is Totnes. I went to Exeter once and it was completely sensorially overwhelming. So quite how going on Eurostar and all that's going to be, I have no idea. Manda: This is how our ancestors lived there, wasn't it? There were people in our village who for whom going to Glasgow was a once in a decade event when I was a kid growing up. And the rest of the time they were within walking distance or maybe took a bus to the little town and that was it. Rob: I used to live in Italy when I was about in my early 20s and I lived in this village and we had this friend called Guido, who was about 80, lovely, lovely man, still running his farm on his own. He had a cow and a horse. And I remember he had one time an English backpacking young woman had come to stay in his house for a while and helped on the farm called Lynetta. We still talked about Lynetta all the time. And I don't think he'd ever been maybe he'd been to Pisa once, you know, he'd hardly ever been away. And I remember he said, I know you're going to London. If you go to London, just ask for Lynetta. Everyone will know.It's like this mental picture of London as it was the same size village.. Manda: So since we last spoke, you have started your own podcast and the whole of your book, 'From what is to What If' seems to me to have taken off as an Internet phenomenon. The concept of creative thinking as a way to move us forward has become central. So there may well be people listening to the podcast. Actually, I hope there are people listening to the podcast who haven't read your book yet, because that means that they will go out and buy it by the end of the podcast and we will enlarge the general audience of the concept of creative imagination and what it can do to begin to shape the more beautiful world that our hearts know is possible that Charles Eisenstein speaks of. So before we move into the work that you've been doing recently, can we talk a little bit about the book from what is to what is how it arose and the wonder that is contained within it? Rob: Well, it was kind of a two year project, really, that I did where I interviewed more than 100 people. I went to visit loads of really interesting places, projects. And it came about because I kept reading people who I really admire and respect, like Bill McKibben and Naomi Klein and George Monbiot and people. And they all seem to be using this term where they would say climate change is a failure of the imagination. It would kind of pop up and then disappear again. I'd be going, oh, ah, I was interesting. What do you mean by that? Why why would we be having a failure of the imagination in 2020 at a time when we need to be at our most imaginative? And then I came across some research done in 2011 by a woman callled Kyum Hee Kim, a researcher who had looked at a whole load of data from something called the Torrance Test for Creative Thinking, which is the sort of gold standard creativity test which had been done in the US on big samples of people going back to the 1960s. And the conclusion was that imagination and IQ had risen together until the mid 90s and then IQ kept rising and imagination kind of just like sort of divergent thinking had started to decline. And I thought, well, when this was published, it made the front page of Newsweek. It was a really big deal. And it was like people it was a whole lot of soul searching in the US about what does this mean for economic growth? What does this mean for Hollywood? And to which I was I don't really care about those, but I do really care about what that means for the fact that we're trying to imagine an alternative to business as usual, because business as usual is a suicide pact. And if we're stuck with our imagination, that's really, really serious. And actually, we were talking about lock down before for me, one of the one of the moments for me during lockdown that just nailed this thing of climate change is a failure of the imagination was the most surreal. I mean, the last four years have given us lots of surreal Donald Trump moments. But the one where he was talking about how he was trying to dismiss the idea of making buildings more energy efficient, because everybody knows that the only way to make buildings more energy efficient is to fill in all their windows. So they have no windows. I'm thinking you're the you're the president of this country and actually really on social media and things, I encounter so many people who get into that thing of, well, a low carbon future is basically living in a cave and eating potatoes, isn't it? And of course it's not. Of course it's not. And so in the book, what I wanted to do, it kind of help me really realise that a lot of what I've been doing for the last 10, 12 years and the transition movement and the writing and the talking I do is about longing and cultivating longing. The only way we're going to achieve a zero carbon world is by creating such deep longing in people that it becomes inevitable that we create it in a way. We say when when Neil Armstrong went to the moon, it wasn't his idea, it wasn't JFK idea. We had culturally been creating that longing to go there. Frank Sinatra sang us to the moon. Tintin wen...