Amex’s Jessica Ling sits down with The Current Podcast to discuss the biggest differences between marketing to business and to consumers, and how the brand considers the effectiveness and efficiency of marketing investments. She also touches on how Amex is reaching Gen Z by tapping into their passions and fandoms, such as a partnership with Olivia Rodrigo. Episode TranscriptPlease note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.[00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian [00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. [00:00:02] Damian: And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:00:04] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Jess Ling, Executive Vice President of Global Brand Advertising at American Express. [00:00:12] Damian: Now, American Express, as everyone knows, is one of the world's most recognized brands. Thanks especially to its striking visual identity on its cards, which features the company logo of a centurion, which evokes trust and security. Now, Amex is a company that can chart its cultural presence through its legacy of brand campaigns, all the way to date with its powerful backing campaign. [00:00:35] Ilyse: Jess has been at Amex for the past five years. As part of her role, she oversees Amex's in house creative agency. During her time, she's helped grow the brand's offerings into experiences and benefits for its many members. [00:00:48] Damian: Now, Jess built her career at Amex first as a B2B marketer, but now she's a consumer facing brand marketer. We started by asking her about this transition. [00:00:57] Damian: Jess, thank you for being here. [00:00:59] Jess: Thank you [00:01:00] for having me. [00:01:00] Damian: I know that you've spent six years at Verizon doing B2B marketing and your first four years at Amex were also B2B, but you've shifted now into a different department. [00:01:10] What's that change like and what are the differences when it comes to marketing to businesses versus marketing to consumers?  [00:01:18] Jess: Yeah, but it's a great question. I actually spent, I would say, probably the first 17 years of my career. In B to B and in revenue marketing. And even when I came to American Express, it was B to B marketing. But it was also performance marketing. So very, very heavy on the acquisition side. [00:01:35] What I would say is, more actually unites them than separates them, right? When you think about B2B versus B2C, it is really fundamentally about knowing your audience. It's about understanding segmentation. It's about being very anchored in insights, understanding what motivates and what challenges your consumer, whether that is a small business, corporate prospect or a consumer. It's a little bit different in terms of the way we bring our brand to life, right? When you think about, more business focused channels versus consumer channels, but I would say at its core, the discipline is the same. And in fact, the rigor that you bring from B to B into B to C enables you to be a bit more focused on what are the financial and revenue implications of the work that we're doing. [00:02:27] Damian: We're hearing that a lot more now about the CFO and the CMO being much closer together. Is that a factor for you as a marketer? [00:02:33] Jess: you as a marketer? Financial outcomes are very important to us as a brand. It's really important. We are a performance driven culture. Much of our marketing is performance driven. I would say even on the brand side of the house, We are incredibly rigorous, and so we think a lot about not just the efficacy of our investments, but the efficiency of them. [00:02:55] And so while I am thinking about, metrics that are a little bit, higher [00:03:00] in the funnel, so I think about consideration, I think about awareness, it's not consideration and awareness at any cost or by any means, right? So I still very deeply think, about the return on investment from a brand standpoint. [00:03:15] Damian: Just off the back of that, how connected are the pieces of this for you? You obviously focus on global brand strategy, but you're also very much focused on, the data side of it. how important is bringing those two things together?  [00:03:37] Jess: It’s very very important and we think about it as much as a closed loop as possible. What insights go into the strategy? How do we leverage those insights throughout the customer journey? [00:03:42] And then how do we use data that we gain along the way to optimize, right? And so one of the things that I think can be a little bit dangerous as a one way street of insights into strategy, into plan, Without that back loop of optimization, were the insights that we used actually [00:04:00] accurate? How do we think about, improving not just the creative output or the media plan, but the foundation of data and insights that underscore it?  [00:04:09] Ilyse: Now, American Express as a brand has gone well beyond just being a charge card or financial product, you have now positioned yourself as a brand that offers, its members like experiences and benefits. How do you think about evolving the brand while continuing to protect its legacy? [00:04:29] Jess: Yes, that's a question we think about every day. What I would say is that we don't think of ourselves as a credit card company, right? Or we're in the financial services category, but we're very much in the business of membership. And so when someone is thinking about our brand, We need to transcend the category of, that financial transaction or that payment moment. [00:04:52] And so our movement into experiences and lifestyle benefits is very much because we [00:05:00] believe that when you are an Amex card member, You are indeed a member, and that membership enables you access not just to seamless payment moments, but also to travel, to dining, to entertainment, and those are very sustainable categories for us.  [00:05:18] Ilyse: Now Amex historically has been associated with wealth and status. You have the Amex gold card or the platinum card, for instance. And yet you've recently made moves to attract Gen Zers who perhaps, aren't your traditional customer. They're, they are getting older and getting more money themselves, for sure, but there's still some younger ones in that generation. [00:05:41] Ilyse: And you've done partnerships with Olivia Rodrigo. Can you talk about these campaigns and why it's important to really connect with the younger generation? [00:05:52] Jess: Well, first of all, Gen Z and Millennial customers are the future of our customer base. So it's very, important for us to [00:06:00] be building momentum with them. [00:06:01] We have a very deliberate strategy. If you think about our newest card members, 60 percent of our new consumer accounts are Gen Z and Millennial. And that's not by accident, right? We have been evolving. Our product propositions to be very dynamic and responsive. And so when you think about, the question of how do you protect the brand while evolving it? [00:06:21] What I would say is the brand is built on 174 years of trust, security and safety. And so when you think about consistency over time, what you give yourself permission to do as a brand is then evolve on that consistency, right? So in order to be innovative you have to start from a really strong foundation Where we found that innovation is very much speaking to younger audiences. [00:06:43] And so you mentioned the Olivia Rodrigo Partnership that's an example of something that's very important to us because As an Amex card member, you're unable to get closer to the things that you love, right? And so we really try to tap into passion and fandom. [00:07:00] And Olivia is an incredible ambassador for Gen Z. [00:07:03] And we're really excited about our ability to, whether it's pre sale, whether it's merchandise, get our card members closer to the music and the artists they love.  [00:07:15] Damian: going back to your point about reading the tea leaves, reading the data. do you see when it comes to Gen Z consumers? And I know that's not a monolithic blog, but do they interact with the brand? in a different ways to say, more established customers. [00:07:31] Jess: established customers? Here's what I would say about Gen Z that we, we find really interesting as a brand. They care deeply about, supporting brands that share their values, right? And for us, it's, We are a values led brand, and we are not reactive necessarily to, the thing in front of us, right? We have been, as an example, in the business of supporting small businesses for a very long time. And what we find is that Gen Z consumers care deeply about community. They care deeply about small [00:08:00] business. And it's a very natural intersection with where American Express has always been. [00:08:04] And so You know, I think the trick is we're not creating a platform to respond to what Gen Z is interested in. We happen to already be there from a value standpoint, and we find that our consumers, especially the younger ones, it really resonates with them. And [00:08:20] Damian: and speaking of reaching, those audiences, are there any particular nuances to the way you go about doing that? in the current environment, we're talking about the rise of CTV and all of these different opportunities. [00:08:32] Jess: Yeah, there are a couple. I will. I'll speak to one example. We're really excited and proud of. We have had a partnership with the bear, which is a show on FX, for two seasons now. And one of the reasons we're so excited about it is because it's a new show. The conversation about the show is bigger than the show, right? [00:08:48] Just like as a brand, the conversation around Amex is bigger than the card. And so we really look for adjacencies that help us tap into the cultural zeitgeist, right? And when you think [00:09:00] about an opportunity like The Bear, it's the perfect platform for Amex. It's about a small business owner, it's about dining, there's incredible social dialogue about it. [00:09:09] And so that's one example of how we go outside of traditional advertising to build that connection and relevance. [00:09:15] Damian: On that point, I guess, the idea that it's a customer centric brand, could you say a little bit more about how you center and focus on the customer? [00:09:23] Ilyse: Yes, [00:09:24] Jess: absolutely. So we have a global brand platform. [00:09:27] It's called powerful backing, and it really is rooted in that 174 years of trust, security and service. And at the core are our customers, right? And so when we think about whether it's an ad campaign, whether it's a product, whatever it is, how does it manifest that brand promise of powerful backing? And one of the questions that we think about a lot is consistency through the line, right? [00:09:50] So. Whether you see us on social media, whether you see us in TV, whether you see us, in a more sort of direct response, type piece of communication, we still want to make sure that you're [00:10:00] feeling the brand come through, and that when you are a customer, every transaction, every interaction you have, you should feel backed, by the membership. [00:10:08] I want to [00:10:09] Ilyse: to talk a little bit about live sports because American Express has such a big presence at a ton of major live sports events. I believe like 47 venues and teams all together, which is just a huge number. and that includes like NBA and US Open, Wimbledon and more. why do these events hold so much power for Amex? [00:10:32] Jess: They hold power because passion around sports and live sports is an enduring passion, right? [00:10:38] It is. I think we just celebrated our 31st year of partnership with the U. S. T. A. And the U. S. Open. We have a very longstanding partnership with the N. B. A. We have a partnership with F one in the Americas that were very excited about. And it's because the conversation and the passion around sports is deeply meaningful [00:11:00] to our customers and our ability to get them benefits and access that are so connected to what they love. Is very important for us and is an enduring platform. What does it [00:11:11] Ilyse: it mean for a legacy brand like Amex that, dates back to 1847? I believe 1850, I was close. 1850, to stay relevant in today's world. and how do you, I guess, maintain that consistency as, a luxury product, but also integrated into, everyday life? Yeah, [00:11:33] Jess: I think it is about, very closely watching the balance between staying consistent as a brand so that our customers and our prospects. [00:11:42] know deeply what we stand for, and what experience they'll have once they become a card member and leveraging that consistency to be very dynamic and innovative on the product front. And I think that's how we balance it, right? When you think about the American express brand over time, it should still evoke [00:12:00] the same emotion, right? [00:12:01] Powerful backing, access to the things that you're passionate about. But when you think about how our products have evolved over time, If I point out just the recent gold card, right, we just refreshed American Express gold and it's full of incredibly relevant dining benefits, right? There's a Dunkin benefit. [00:12:19] There's a partnership with Rezzy and benefits there, which are very, very, they're very anchored towards speaking to the audience and what they're looking for today. So we really think about that complement between stable brand, consistent brand and dynamic products. [00:12:35] Damian: As you're in charge of the brand story, if you like, do you look back at the legacy of amazing campaigns that American Express has had in the, throughout the, last 50 years have a and build on that?  [00:12:48] Jess: Yes, in fact, question a very, very rich history. And what I would say that I'm so proud of is that the history of our brand is often told through the advertising. Right? And so when you look back in time at [00:13:00] 174 years of a brand, and we do have this history, we look at it, my teams are trained in it. What you see is every Big moment in the company's history is paired with what was the advertising of the brand at that time. [00:13:14] And so for us, our history and our heritage, we live that every day. And when we think about how to bring that forward, it is with all of the equity of the advertising that came before us. [00:13:26] Damian: is question off that. Is era of fragmentation?  [00:13:35] Jess: it's not because we have a global brand platform, right? So no matter where you are in the world You should feel the brand come to life in a way that brings powerful backing to the front. what we've made major progress on is making sure that as a consumer, when you take your American Express card with you around the globe, that you're confident in, the acceptance around, the world in terms of, being able to buy with confidence at merchants that [00:14:00] you want to support. And so we've made, huge strides there, but we continue to be a globally consistent brand. One thing I wanted [00:14:07] Damian: I wanted to ask you about, obviously American Express by definition is a U. S. brand. And I've noticed sometimes it's less used, perhaps in Europe. I'm wondering if you see areas of opportunity to build out the brand, build that growth story in other markets. [00:14:22] Jess: other markets? [00:14:23] Yeah, and I think, look, there are markets that very important to us. There are growing markets that we are, a little bit newer as a brand, in terms of our penetration there. but what I would say is when you think about, a market like the UK, you'll see us, you can, you'll see us come to life in powerful ways from a brand standpoint. You'll see us at Wimbledon. you'll see us in music festivals. And when you're out there using your card in everyday ways, it'll be a seamless experience for you. [00:14:51] Damian: Yeah, I do see that at Wimbledon and, and around those major music festivals. Yeah. [00:14:57] Ilyse: as a, charge card financial [00:15:00] product, American Express has a lot of consumer data at its fingertips. How does that data help you in any way with the creative process? When it comes to branding and campaigns, do you consider it whether it's like business outcomes or in the KPIs that you said? [00:15:19] Jess: mean, what I would say is, at its core, my job is to tell great stories, that are grounded in insights that, of course, are backed by data. what I would say is, when we think about our creative strategy and we look at data and insight, It's two things need to be true. They need to be true in culture and they need to be true for American Express. [00:15:39] If they're only true for one half of that equation, it doesn't resonate. And so I'll give you a quick example. we have a ton of data and in one of our recent travel studies, we found that I think it was over 75 percent of millennials want to take a solo trip this year. So it's certainly true for American Express, but you can't go on Tik and not see amazing [00:16:00] travel adventures of millennial and Gen Z people taking vacations alone, right? So again, it's an example of something that we're seeing our customers do and something that is true and identifiable in culture. And so that becomes a creative territory for us, right? How do we then create stories based on that insight? [00:16:17] And we launched a piece of creative. It's called all by myself, and it's about a woman traveling on her own to Greece, and she collects friends and experiences along the way. And of course. and it's leveraging the benefits of American Express. And so it's only through that combination that we really get the most out of the data and insights. [00:16:35] Ilyse: All right, so Jess, tell me, what does it mean for a legacy brand like Amex to stay relevant? [00:16:42] You obviously have been around since 1850, which is a long time. And how do you then maintain that consistency as a luxury product, but also integrate into everyday life? [00:16:55] Jess: great question. Um, and we think that all of the time. And [00:17:00] it really is, that balance between a very consistent, stable and disciplined brand, which over time you mentioned since 18 50 we have stayed true to the values of trust, security and service, right? [00:17:13] And so when you build on that foundation, you're then able to create a very dynamic product set that is responsive to the needs of today's consumers. And so one example that I will give because you asked about everyday value, Is that we recently refreshed the MX gold product, and it is very much built for purpose for today's customer, right? [00:17:35] And so when you think about the benefits on that card, it's very dining forward because we know that our customers, especially Gen Z and millennial customers are obsessed with great dining. They're obsessed with food and experiences, and so it's one way in which we keep true to the brand while also continuing to innovate and elevate through our products. [00:17:57] Damian: So Jess, you oversee Amex's in house creative [00:18:00] agency. What does it mean to have the agency in house? How does that give you flexibility and agility, which is one of the key buzzwords [00:18:07] Jess: buzzwords, right? It is, it's an incredible privilege to lead our in house creative agency. It's called On Brand. it's full of incredibly talented, creative folks, but also project managers and account managers and strategists. and we really leverage On Brand to create, excellent creative quality. On Brand. [00:18:27] Throughout the enterprise. And so, when I think about our brand, you think about The sort of big advertising channels that we do, and we have agencies of record who help us with that on Brent also contributes to that. But we do still have a roster of really, really close agency partners. But when you think about the internal agency, think about all of the advertising and communication that go out from the business units. [00:18:50] That talk to our colleagues that talk to prospective colleagues. and all of that, having that in house really led by brand stewards. These people work at the brand. They live and [00:19:00] breathe the MX brand. it pays dividends in terms of the quality of the work, our ability to partner across American Express. [00:19:08] and of course, to deliver more efficiency.  [00:20:18] Damian: Okay, yeah, that's great. Thank you so much for your time and insight. [00:20:23] Jess: It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me. [00:20:26] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:20:28] We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:20:31] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Cat Fessy and Sydney Cairns. [00:20:37] Damian: And remember,  [00:20:39] Jess: When you look back in time at 174 years of a brand, What you see is every Big moment in the company's history is paired with what was the advertising of the brand at that time. [00:20:51] And so for us, our history and our heritage, we live that every day. And when we think about how to bring that forward, it is [00:21:00] with all of the equity of the advertising that came before us.  [00:21:03] Damian: I'm Damian. [00:21:04] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. [00:21:05] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.