Pavel Durov is the founder and CEO of Telegram. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript CONTACT LEX: Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact EPISODE LINKS: Pavel’s Telegram: https://t.me/durov Pavel’s X: https://x.com/durov Telegram: https://telegram.org/ Telegram Contests: https://contest.com/ SPONSORS: To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: Miro: Online collaborative whiteboard platform. Go to https://miro.com/ UPLIFT Desk: Standing desks and office ergonomics. Go to https://upliftdesk.com/lex Fin: AI agent for customer service. Go to https://fin.ai/lex LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex Shopify: Sell stuff online. Go to https://shopify.com/lex OUTLINE: (00:00) – Introduction (02:46) – Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections (11:29) – Philosophy of freedom (14:37) – No alcohol (22:42) – No phone (28:38) – Discipline (49:50) – Telegram: Lean philosophy, privacy, and geopolitics (1:05:12) – Arrest in France (1:21:23) – Romanian elections (1:32:18) – Power and corruption (1:41:50) – Intense education (1:53:51) – Nikolai Durov (1:58:19) – Programming and video games (2:02:33) – VK origins & engineering (2:19:46) – Hiring a great team (2:29:02) – Telegram engineering & design (2:48:04) – Encryption (2:53:01) – Open source (2:57:48) – Edward Snowden (3:00:20) – Intelligence agencies (3:01:32) – Iran and Russia government pressure (3:04:41) – Apple (3:11:38) – Poisoning (3:43:53) – Money (3:52:45) – TON (4:02:35) – Bitcoin (4:05:34) – Two chairs dilemma (4:12:14) – Children (4:23:24) – Father (4:27:55) – Quantum immortality (4:34:27) – Kafka PODCAST LINKS: – Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast – Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr – Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 – RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ – Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 – Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips