PNC Bank Chief Marketing Officer Jenn Garbach joins The Current Podcast at SXSW as part of International Women’s Day and Women’s History Month. Garbach shares insights on the success of the bank’s Brilliantly Boring campaign and reflects on her journey in marketing, tackling imposter syndrome, and balancing career growth with family life. Episode TranscriptPlease note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.Kat Vesce (00:00):I'm Kat Vesce.Ilyse Liffreing (00:02):And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. In honor of International Women's Day and Women's Month, we're highlighting powerhouse women in marketing who are making an impact in theirKat Vesce (00:17):Industries. For this episode, we're thrilled to be joined by Jenn Garbach, chief marketing officer at PNC Bank, where she's redefining how 160 year old financial institution connects with modern consumers.Ilyse Liffreing (00:28):Jenn and her team launched brilliantly Boring, a campaign that leans into humor, trust, and authenticity.Kat Vesce (00:34):We'll dive into the strategy behind the campaign, the results that made it a game changer, and how PNC is balancing modernization with legacy in an industry built on tradition.Ilyse Liffreing (00:44):Plus, we'll discuss Jenn's insights on leadership and empowering women in the industry. Let's get started. So Jenn, it's wonderful for you to join us today at our studio at the Female Quotient Lounge during South by Southwest.Jenn Garbach (01:00):Thank you so much for having me. Yay.Ilyse Liffreing (01:02):So last July, PNC Bank came up with the campaign brilliantly boring. It's the first work with your new agency of record, Arnold Worldwide. Why is this campaign a game changer for the 160 year old brand?Jenn Garbach (01:15):Well, nothing infuses life and vigor into a brand like putting the word boring into it, but this has been a really fun opportunity for us to help match the growth trajectory of the business by rethinking the way we're telling the story about PNC in the marketplace. And so brilliantly boring has really been about taking that step forward, defining our brand in a way that brings distinction resonance in a very, very crowded and commoditized financial services market and is really authentic to who we are as an organization at PNC. Amazing.Ilyse Liffreing (01:48):And why lean into the word boring by any chance? The term is not, I guess, usually one you would associate with a creative campaign.Jenn Garbach (01:55):It isn't, but it works so well for us. And I think the single biggest thing is boring is very authentic to who PNC is. And give me a moment. Because what we're really proud of is redefining what boring means. Boring doesn't mean old stuck in our ways. What we're redefining boring as is steady, reliable, and trustworthy. And why that's really important to us is that we know financial services has seen as an industry has seen its ups and downs, not just recently, but frankly over time. And so the ability to signal to our customers that we are a bank that is 160 years old and that we have been steady and reliable along the way is really important. And how are you guys telling a story across Lakewood channels? We're across all mass channels right now, so you'll see us on tv, online, video, social media, and then pulling increasingly through our lower funnel and direct marketing. So that's been another fun part of bringing brilliantly boring to life in all aspects of PNCs marketing.Kat Vesce (02:53):I love that reframe too. And reclaiming the word boring to make it something more meaningful and more related to steadiness ofJenn Garbach (03:00):I think that's right. And what we hear in the marketplace too is while there's a lot of pressure to keep up in the marketplace, and we are certainly innovating and bringing new products, new technology to market, when you do the consumer research, you do not hear people saying, you know what I want from my bank? A really flashy forward bank that is doing all of these technological things. People want their money to be there when they need it. They're looking for a steady, reliable partner. And frankly, they're not thinking about financial services all the time, but when they need their money, they want to know it's there and they have access to it. And that's at the nexus of redefining brilliantly boring is we'll do all the boring stuff behind the scenes so that you can live the brilliant life that you want. You can be the brilliant business owner and run your business the way that you want.Kat Vesce (03:46):I love that. Less risks, less flash, more reliability.Jenn Garbach (03:49):That's right.Kat Vesce (03:50):So it seems like PNC Bank has not only undertaken a rehaul in terms of messaging, but a technical one as well. How has your previous experience as the head of global marketing, planning, operations and transformation at PayPal helped steer your strategy in reaching today's consumers for PNC Bank?Jenn Garbach (04:06):I'm going to lean into the campaign for a second and bear with me on this one. Part of the content extension of Brilliantly Boring is our boring before brilliance content series. And so we work with sports athletes like Scott Dixon, who's an indie car racer, or Steve Stricker who's a PGA golfer, and tell the story about all the boring, repetitive, seemingly mundane aspects of their training routines that show up in these moments of brilliance, whether it's on the racetrack, on the course. And that really sits behind when I think about not only my experience, but what we are doing at PNC, which is operational excellence is the foundation of what leads to brilliance of how we go to market and how we're able to connect and resonate with customers. So I think a bunch of that experience before leading through many different forms of transformation is making sure that we don't ignore the boring basics, those steady, reliable aspects of making sure we have process technology capabilities that we're training the team and helping set them up to take advantage of all of those new capabilities. And then how that shows up is us really resonating in a different way through campaigns like brilliantly boring, but also in our one-to-one marketing, our personalization efforts and really bringing value and resonance to the customers that we're working with.Kat Vesce (05:26):And let's shift into the results of this campaign. How is brilliantly boring performing? Is it reaching the right audience? Are you hitting everything that you set out to do with it? Any surprising results?Jenn Garbach (05:37):Yeah, we are really, really excited. So, so far we are firing in all dimensions right now by the numbers. Our return on ad spend is up 12% compared to prior campaigns. Our brand lift is up with statistically significant increase, which as we are on a growth trajectory as bank, moving from this super regional tier and competing increasingly with the big national banks signaling that we are a big national bank, someone that consumers can trust, seeing lift in all of those metrics is really important and something that we were looking for. And I think the one that's really fun and gives us some real time feedback is we have the highest positive social sentiment that we have ever had in our history of recording that. And that's really showing the engagement and the fun and the humor shining through with this campaign and how, I mean, you guys know, social is a channel that is very easy for folks to come in with negative thoughts or complaints. And so the idea that we're able to create really positive engagement is a nice feedback loop and response for us right now.Ilyse Liffreing (06:42):And now I understand that the campaign not only moved the needle in terms of reaching customers, but also internally kind of working as a way to center your corporate PNC around guideposts. Can you explain why?Jenn Garbach (06:58):I think having a campaign like this has done a bunch of really great things for us. It's been a culture carrier and in some ways defining our brand in this way is giving folks a way to see themselves and the work that they do. You don't have to be in marketing to be a part of brilliantly boring. You can be a credit underwriter, you can be in operations, you can be in the frontline working in the care center in a branch and really live and embody that spirit of brilliantly boring. It's also just help us give a story internally. So there's this mirror image of what we're trying to do with new breakthrough storytelling externally, but that same thing applies internally. One of the things I love most is hearing folks play back, Hey, for the first time I'm watching our new TV ads and it feels like we're putting PNC on stage with those other big banks that I'm used to seeing other banks, other companies show up like this. And it's a source of pride for folks to be able to see themselves. So really, really pleased that it is carrying that torch for us internally. And then it helps us connect further with the brand is not just the campaign. The brand is the culmination of all of our product services and experiences. And so having folks feel that connected is really impactful.Ilyse Liffreing (08:11):Now I want to take a moment and kind of see the big picture here because you mentioned before that we're living in a time of high distrust of banks. Now how does this campaign and then perhaps any future ones you're working on, what does it do to calm those consumers fears in this area? Where is this fear coming from originally? I guess really? Where does the responsibility of the marketer come in here?Jenn Garbach (08:40):I think it's being honest and really assessing the marketplace landscape that we're operating in today. Right. And while I may not be proud of it, it's fairly evident to be able to say that financial services has not exactly been a beloved industry to folks over the past 20 years. And again, you can look at bank failures at the beginning of last year, you can look back to 2008, there's this repeated history. But if you go back even further, kind of citing that 160 year history, there was a time when banking was a mainstay of the community, right? Truly like a pillar on every main street in the community as that steady, reliable place. And so this is both coming from consumer feedback saying we are looking for that steady, reliable partner, and also we're looking for an empathetic partner. And that is a place that in our history at PNC, we have always shined through as a partner that builds relationships with our customers and with our clients. And so I think brilliantly boring is a way for us to really help acknowledge some of that mistrust in the industry and signal that we have been steady and reliable this whole time. And that's in fact a differentiator in a time where things can be very flashy fast, it's a lot changing in the financial environment overall, and it's actually a differentiator for usKat Vesce (10:04):Creating that bit of fomo too. I bet. For people who may be left and want to come back.Jenn Garbach (10:08):That's right.Kat Vesce (10:10):With such a legacy brand like PNC Bank, how do you balance what to carry into the future and what to refresh?Jenn Garbach (10:16):It's a great question. I think about in any time of transition, and I'll define us in transition as just in growth mode, really being thoughtful about what you keep and what you leave behind. And I mentioned earlier that notion of we have always been a relationship based organization that is something that is so near and dear to our hearts culturally and is a huge part of our success recipe. So we are going to keep and hold that precious and showcase that frankly as part of the brand, what we're going to leave behind and be willing to move on from is growing from a bank that used to be a regional based in Pittsburgh and now operating at national scale. We've got to be ready to leave behind some of the processes, some of the things that we operated that way because it served us back in the day and now we need to try new things. That includes being open to a bold new brand platform, like brilliantly boring. So I think it's a nice signal of the willingness to embrace some new things that we never would've seen on our horizon in the past, but also keep true to the foundational parts of our culture, the ways of working that are really core to our success.Kat Vesce (11:22):We're going to pivot into some rapid fire q and a and celebration of International Women's Day and Women's Month. So focusing on you as a female marketing leader, what has been your biggest challenge?Jenn Garbach (11:37):I was thinking about this question and I think one, as a marketing leader, I think my biggest challenge has been being able to balance the art and science of marketing. And as a woman leader, it's been the ability to constantly my personal and my professional expectations. And those end up bleeding together in these different intersections. And sometimes it ends up in the form of being one of few women at the table. But I do feel very lucky that I have worked for organizations that have really strong advocacy and where I do have other women at the table. But I would say balancing that element of the function that it can sometimes be written off as just creative and there's lots of science and data behind how we go to market. And then also the tension of I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a friend, I have all these other dimensions and constantly recalibrating those expectations and how those play in with my aspirations and my leadership growth journey.Kat Vesce (12:37):Have you cracked the code because as also a mom and a marketer and trying to balance career growth and that trajectory as well as wanting to be there for your kids and wanting to be a good spouse and wanting to be a great friend? I feel the same things you're talking about. Wondering if you have any adviceJenn Garbach (12:58):On that. I don't know that I can claim to have cracked the code, but the thing that has helped me is probably twofold. It's one thinking about you have these different pillars of my life and I named some of them. It's my family, it's my career, it's my friends, it's my health. And it is seldom that all of those pillars are perfectly in place at any given time. And the second part is realizing that it is, I use that phrase recalibration intentionally. It's I need to recalibrate my own expectations of I can't give a hundred percent energy to all of those aspects at all times. And so being really honest with myself of I'm in a surge mode career, which might mean I'm pulling back on family and sometimes that's hard to acknowledge, but having that conversation with my family and rebalancing is really important. So that I think it's keeping at forefront and realizing it's not actually a point of arrival. It's a constant process.Ilyse Liffreing (13:56):Now, a common qualm of women I guess is that they experience imposter syndrome being in any, this is across multiple industries, of course, but in marketing, I feel like it's true. Have you experienced imposter syndrome in your career? And if so, I guess how did you push past it?Jenn Garbach (14:15):Absolutely. That feeling of being called into the principal's office when you get an email or a phone call from a senior leader or that feeling of, oh my gosh, this is the time they're going to figure out, I have no idea what I'm doing. I do think I have made significant growth personally in helping to manage that. And one of the things that's been really helpful is I've worked with a number of different coaches and this idea of what is the talk track that's in my head versus what is the reality of the feedback signals around me? And I actually had a leader that I worked with previously who played this back really directly to me when I was sharing very openly about some of that challenge of feeling like I was underperforming. And he looked at me and said, Jenn, is that story in your head? What feedback are you actually getting? Who has told you that besides yourself? And so that's something, again, try to keep in the forefront of my mind of is that a narrative I'm building for myself and does that match the feedback that I'm getting around me? And if it's disconnected, that might be a signal of it's just up in my head when all the other kind of signals are coming back being like, no,(15:26):You're right in there. Keep Going.Ilyse Liffreing (15:28):And do you think women in marketing face different expectations or leadership challenges than their male counterparts? Kind of a tricky one. How do you navigate those?Jenn Garbach (15:38):Yeah. One of the dynamics that I'm always cognizant of is probably more related to, again, marketing as a function. And I think because marketing is not always well understood broadly at an organization and can get reduced to the idea of it's producing creative, it can play into stereotypes about women and women workers. And so I think it's about, for me at least, it's been about building my leadership brand as a transformational leader and then grounding that in a broad general management skillset and really taking a data-driven approach to marketing to help combat that. There are lots of fun, creative parts of my job, but there's also a science and a math behind it and creating that accountability for myself and how I interact with my business partners to show outcomes. So that is something that I definitely think exists broadly. And I have tried to just balance for myself by thinking about what is that leadership brand for myself and what is my leadership philosophy in terms of leading a marketing organizationKat Vesce (16:39):As more women take on executive roles, what shifts do you hope to see in the way marketing organizations are structured and led?Jenn Garbach (16:47):I don't know if I have a great answer to how I want to see them structured and led. I think I just want to see more women in the leadership roles in the seats. I think I don't want to be reductive to how women lead. I think it's just the idea of the more different brains we have at the table, the broader our thinking, the better our collaboration. And so I think it's about getting more folks into the seats and finding out what that actually looks like.Kat Vesce (17:16):And not even gender. No, but not even gender specific. That could mean anyone. I think just diversity of thought is so important. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Amazing. Well, Jenn, thank you so much for the time. Thank you so much. We really enjoyed this.Jenn Garbach (17:26):Thank you for having me. This has been fun.Kat Vesce (17:27):Second, great. Wow. Another stellar conversation today. I'm just walking away so inspired. I really loved how PNC Bank and Jenn Garba have reclaimed the word boring, obviously. It's a main point of, it's so fun. It's so fun and a great way to reframe it into meaning something that is steady, something that is reliable. Taking that tradition of what PNC bank stands for and meeting the needs of what their customers told them they're looking for in a modern bank is just so cool. And really what a way to transition the brand.Ilyse Liffreing (18:11):And for 160 year old legacy brand, that's hard to do. It's really balancing what they want to carry into the future and what they want to refresh. And I feel like Jenn was really good at describing exactly thatKat Vesce (18:26):And giving their internal employees like a battle cry or something to you really rally behind, which is so important. Especially as she mentioned, their services are going to, on the national scale, it feels like a campaign that can really service anyone in the country at any age who really, you don't want the flash and pizazz.(18:47):You want to be able to live that way maybe with your finances being in order, but you kind of need the steadiness of that.Ilyse Liffreing (18:54):It should be boring. It really should be boring, be easy and boring. I also liked how she dug into imposter syndrome because I feel like that's very prevalent as women in marketing. And it was very fascinating how she had a boss who was like, I think that's just a story playing out in your head. Nobody's telling you this. It'sKat Vesce (19:14):A good reminder to make sure that you're leveraging true feedback that's coming in and not creating your own story or perception. I think as women, we, and in general, marketers really strive to elevate the bar in everything they do, and I think it's important for everyone to remindIlyse Liffreing (19:38):Themselves, especially when you're battlingKat Vesce (19:41):Perception versus realityIlyse Liffreing (19:43):Handling everything like motherhood on top of,Kat Vesce (19:45):Oh, that was another favorite moment for me, I think. I was like, give me all the tips. Have you cracked the code? Does anyone crack the code?(19:56):Because I mean, whether you're, Nope, truth is nope. But I loved how she said you can't be a hundred percent in any one pillar. And beyond just being a mom, she talked about health, being a good friend, surging in your career, and managing when and how those surges come to fair.(20:13):Just really gave me a lot to think about. I need to do some adjustments in my own life to make sure I'm not trying to do adjustments.Ilyse Liffreing (20:21):Yeah, that's what biggest takeaway. We all need to do adjustments.Kat Vesce (20:25):Yeah. Yep. And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. Be sure to tune in this whole month as we release all the recordings from South by Southwest. See you next time. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.