What are the material conditions which underpin much of the bizarre phenomena taking place during this strange era that we're in? What unites the conspiracy theories surrounding COVID vaccines with, say, the fanatical obsession with Russian election meddling? How does capitalism — and our economic, material relations within it — lead to a sense of powerlessness that manifests in attempts to explain the world that range from QAnon to Russiagate? In this conversation, we speak with Matt Christman, co-host of Chapo Trap House, one of our favorite podcasts, which was founded in 2016 and hosted by Matt, along with Will Menaker and Felix Biederman. The conversation includes many of the themes and topics mentioned above and discussed on Chapo, but begins with a conversation around Matt's new podcast, Hell of Presidents, which he just launched with Chapo producer Chris Wade. The podcast tells the story of American history through a materialist, political-economic examination of the institution of the presidency. It might sound a bit wonky, but through this specific history Matt and Chris explore a wide range of topics, from the evolution of waged-labor to the many contradictions that this country was founded on and which we continue to experience today. Hell of Presidents is available through Stitcher Premium, but you can listen to the first episode anywhere you can hear Chapo Trap House. This episode of Upstream was made possible with support from listeners like you. Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.