Disorder

Disorder

Goalhanger & Global Enduring Disorder Ltd

Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder. The Disorder podcast teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, NATO Foundation Senior Analyst, and Alexandra Hall Hall, a former British Ambassador, discuss with world-leading experts, senior diplomats and cultural icons, the fundamental principles lurkin...

Ep101. Munich Security Conference 2025 – What does it mean for European Security?

Ep101. Munich Security Conference 2025 – What does it mean for European Security?

In Munich last weekend, J.D. Vance shocked Europe with his speech castigating Europeans as having the ‘wrong values’ and not being ‘democratic’. Meanwhile, Trump and co. are doing the very democratic thing by being in Saudi Arabia and negotiating with Putin over Ukraine behind Zelenskyy’s back – possibly presaging ‘a deal’ that will be struck excluding Ukrainian input at all.   As this episode drops, European leaders are finally trying to get out in front of events by meeting in Paris in an emer

Feb 18, • 42:09

Ep100. Britain's Military: A Tool for Global Ordering?

Ep100. Britain's Military: A Tool for Global Ordering?

With a major war raging in Europe, a seemingly more expansionist Trump in the Whitehouse, and China’s long held desire to invade Taiwan, is Britain prepared militarily?   It’s hard to tell. The current Labour government is still refusing to set out in detail its plans for Defence, including when it might increase spending to 2.5% of GDP. Instead, we are left waiting for the publication of a new Strategic Defence Review. So are Starmer and co missing an opportunity to be mega Orderers?  To unders

Feb 11, • 50:33

Ep.99 The New Age of Political Influence

Ep.99 The New Age of Political Influence

We’re entering a new age of political influence, where money generates attention, and attention generates influence. In this meta-verse, old fashion regulations about lobbying and advertising are no longer suffiecnet and people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg rule the roost. So, what can be done?  To find out, Jane Kinninmont is joined by returning guest Peter Geoghegan, an Irish writer, journalist, and director of Democracy for Sale. The duo discuss: the pervasive influence of money in UK po

Feb 6, • 42:42

Ep.98 Disorder Emergency cast – Tariffs, Impoundment, Gaza, AID Freeze, and plane crash

Ep.98 Disorder Emergency cast – Tariffs, Impoundment, Gaza, AID Freeze, and plane crash

Disorder is a podcast where we hate being right. Totally hate it. Jason truly loves being wrong.  But fudge and fiddlesticks. Seems he is right again. The thing with neo-populists is that they don’t so much have policy agendas and goals, they just seek to disorder the universe by say – proposing to fire in a haphazard way 2 million U.S. government employees, or forcing out top FBI officials, or appointing officials for Senate confirmation to head government agencies that have overtly said they w

Feb 4, • 55:46

Ep97. Does Diplomatic Secrecy actually Work? And What’s Next for Centre-Left Politics?

Ep97. Does Diplomatic Secrecy actually Work? And What’s Next for Centre-Left Politics?

In this episode, Jason and Alex tackle some probing listener questions. They return to a theme from previous episodes (especially the previous episode with Marcel Dirsus): whether today’s autocratic regimes (China, Russia, Iran) are actually as strong as they appear or might be weaker than we imagine. In response to multiple listen questions on this theme, Alex and Jason debate the cultural and economic missteps of the center-left and the importance of addressing real voter concerns about the pa

Jan 30, • 45:16

Ep96. Saved by God to Make American Great Again

Ep96. Saved by God to Make American Great Again

During his second inaugural speech, Trump declared January 20th, 2025 as Liberation Day. His indoor inauguration kept the hoi polloi of the MAGA world literally out in the cold. Inside, the Rotunda was filled with billionaires and family members. Trump’s speech screamed performative sound and fury. "For many years, a radical and corrupt establishment has extracted power and wealth from our citizens, while the pillars of our society lay broken and seemingly in complete disrepair." He then said wi

Jan 28, • 1:04:30

Ep95. Fox News, Elon, and Neo-populists: Engines of Deliberate Disorder?

Ep95. Fox News, Elon, and Neo-populists: Engines of Deliberate Disorder?

In 2022, Nina Jankowicz was appointed to a brand new role within the US Government – Executive Director of the DHS's Disinformation Governance Board, tasked with tackling disinformation. Within weeks, she was the target of a mass disinformation campaign – driven primarily by Fox News – that put her life, family and career at risk.  In today’s episode, Nina joins Arthur Snell to tell that story – and look at the role of dis- and mis-information around the globe. If the US under Trump turns into a

Jan 21, • 49:22

Ep94. Gaza Ceasefire: What’s Next?

Ep94. Gaza Ceasefire: What’s Next?

A tentative ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas has been announced by the US and Qatar.  The deal would see a phased release of Israeli hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners and an end to Israeli bombardments. If the first round of conditions are met, the cease fire should continue and culminate in further negotiations for additional swaps of Israeli hostages for Palestinian prisoners. But what’s next? Will it hold? And how do we get from this transactional bartering to longer term

Jan 16, • 57:52

Ep93. Africa in the Age of Disorder

Ep93. Africa in the Age of Disorder

In 2024, the Disorder podcast looked a lot at Ukraine, Syria, Israel-Palestine, India, Bangledesh, and even north Africa… but we didn’t devote sufficient time to sub-saharan Africa. So what does Africa look like in the Age of Disorder?  To find out, Jason is joined this week by Professor Clionadh Raleigh. Cliona created Armed Conflict Location & Event Data (ACLED) which is a US-based NGO. She is also Professor of Political Violence and Geography in the School of Global Studies at the University

Jan 14, • 52:02

Ep92. Trump 2.0: A Shift Away from Neoconservatism?

Ep92. Trump 2.0: A Shift Away from Neoconservatism?

With Trump due to be inaugurated in less than 15 days, it is high time to come to grips with his foreign policy vision as it can be gleaned from his cabinet appointments. The incoming cabinet appears isolationist, transactional, and lacking a coherent view of what an American-led global system should look like.   This begs the questions: Could Trump 2.0 symbolise a shift in the Republican foreign policy establishment away from the neoconservatism which has dominated it for four decades and towar

Jan 7, • 1:04:01

Ep91. An Orderly or Disorderly New Year?

Ep91. An Orderly or Disorderly New Year?

From the Trump election win to the ongoing conflicts across the Middle East, Sudan and Ukraine… 2024 was certainly a year full of Disorder. But what about 2025? Is there any realistic hope that it could be more orderly? Well maybe there is! And maybe the time has come to take more seriously the *potential* advantages of certain Trump policy proposals. (or maybe not? hahahah)  In this episode, we continue our spotlight on Hebrew music as it is still Hannukah and the tune we start out with asks th

Dec 31, 2024 • 1:05:45

Ep90. A Disorderly Christmas Special

Ep90. A Disorderly Christmas Special

As 2024 draws to a close, Jason and Alex celebrate Chrismukkah (when Christmas and Hanukkah fall on the same date, which is actually a rarer occurrence than you might imagine). They feature some cantorial Hebrew music in the intro and some choral Christmas jingles in the outro. They share their families’ Christmas traditions, exploring the differences between American and British celebrations. They also explore the make believe of the contrasting Christmas celebrations of their alter egos, Xela

Dec 24, 2024 • 59:40

Ep89. Canada: 2025’s stealth mega orderers?

Ep89. Canada: 2025’s stealth mega orderers?

From its important but underrecognized role in the World Wars of the 20th century to its key advocacy for the UN system, humanitarian aid, peacekeeping, and international treaties, Canada has been a major player in the global ordering sweepstakes.   So what does Canada do when the world’s largest trading relationship (Canada’s with the United States) no longer necessarily connects it to a trustworthy nation? Can Canada step up and present itself as an independent leader of the free world and a ‘

Dec 17, 2024 • 49:07

Ep88. Syria: New Order or Fresh Chaos?

Ep88. Syria: New Order or Fresh Chaos?

Assad has fallen! The Tyrant is no more! Long live the revolution!  There has been a genuine outpouring of jubilation among Syrians at home and abroad - even the ones working at the Syrian embassy in Moscow who ‘chose’ to fly the rebel flag. But the international responses are messier - regional players talk of maintaining Syria’s territorial integrity, while several countries welcome the new order with bombing raids (especially Turkey and Israel who are now operating inside Syria to weaken thei

Dec 11, 2024 • 1:01:12

Ep.87 Syria, Georgia, South Korea, France, Ireland, Hunter Biden, oh my

Ep.87 Syria, Georgia, South Korea, France, Ireland, Hunter Biden, oh my

This week was par for the course… We are living through Peak Disorder. Two democratic capital cities were convulsed by demonstrations trying to oust their governments. One Middle Eastern regime collapsed, while a neighboring war was paused.   We at the Disorder pod believe that events like the Israeli-Lebanese ceasefire, the fall of Syria to the rebels, the street protests in Georgia in response to claims the election was rigged, the protests in South Korea opposing attempts to impose martial la

Dec 9, 2024 • 1:05:07

Ep86. Is Democracy Dead? Or actually alive and kicking?

Ep86. Is Democracy Dead? Or actually alive and kicking?

Do elections work anymore? 2024 was the biggest year of elections in human history. Major contests were held in the UK, US, EU, France, India, Japan, Moldova, Georgia, and elsewhere. Did these elections work? Were they free and fair? Did their outcomes actually represent the authentic will of the people? Is genuine electoral democracy with its checks and balances even possible in the mid-21st century?   Today’s guest on Disorder, Ben Ansell holds the contrarian view that democracy is actually al

Dec 3, 2024 • 1:05:41

Ep85. Thanksgiving Special: Taiwan, Identity Politics, and Can Taylor Swift Order the Disorder?

Ep85. Thanksgiving Special: Taiwan, Identity Politics, and Can Taylor Swift Order the Disorder?

Amidst post-election malaise and seasonal depression, Jason is thankful for the Mega-Ordering listeners who sent in their questions to his new address in a bunker underneath the hills of Hampstead (you can reach it by writing to him @ Disordershow@gmail.com). Esther asked ‘To what extent did the Dems actually pander to the woke agenda? Or is that just made up and trumped up by the Republicans since it helps them win points’; Annabelle in Atlanta, Georgia asks ‘Could Taylor Swift solve all the di

Nov 28, 2024 • 48:30

Ep84. Through the Looking Glass: Trump’s Appointments and Can Starmer do Global Leadership?

Ep84. Through the Looking Glass: Trump’s Appointments and Can Starmer do Global Leadership?

We have crossed through the looking glass – Up is Down, Disorder is Order, Vice is Virtue, Felony is a Positive, and Rape Convictions are a reason to get a cabinet position. With Trump unsurprisingly appointing disruptors to his administration, Global Disorder beckons. How did we get here? Seemingly because Biden wasn’t bold enough in trying to assert order. Is Starmer making the same mistake?  In this episode, Jason and Alex discuss what will happen to the ongoing legal cases against Trump, the

Nov 26, 2024 • 49:55

Ep83. Trump Derangement Syndrome with the Two Matts

Ep83. Trump Derangement Syndrome with the Two Matts

The Post-Mortem autopsy continues. How could liberal elites have had eight and half years to prepare for the twenty thousand tonne train barrelling down the tracks right at them and not been able to take sufficient evasive action? Who are these clowns? Do they deserve what is coming? What can studying years of Brexit Fatigue, Orban Exhaustion, and Netanyahu Nihilism, teach us about both how this Trumpian travesty has happened and the likely disorderly evolution of peak Neopopulism in America? An

Nov 19, 2024 • 40:28

Ep82. Fool me twice: Shame on me

Ep82. Fool me twice: Shame on me

The Disorderer-in-Chief is now President-Elect. We can’t say we didn’t see it coming. In fact, we predicted on the pod and on the substack that he was favourite to win. But as the post-mortems are bouncing around the internet, we must ask what one factor most led to this outcome: was it the economy, was it woke gone overboard, was it misinformation, was it the anti-incumbency mood? Which factors predominated in making Harris unelectable? And how did the Democratic party allow itself to be fooled

Nov 12, 2024 • 1:05:32

Ep81. Disorder Trumped Order

Ep81. Disorder Trumped Order

After a night of trepidation at Jason’s watch party the results came in faster and more furiously than expected… Trump crushed Harris – not just in rural areas or in Red States, but in many middle-class suburbs/exurbs and even with Latino and Black men. This 2024 Trumpian landslide is the biggest re-alignment in American politics since Reagan crushed Carter in 1980. The ‘lumpenproletariat’ Trump coalition of 2024 is actually highly dissimilarly economically, socially, ideologically and ethnicall

Nov 6, 2024 • 1:00:56

Ep80. What does the Post-Election Future hold?

Ep80. What does the Post-Election Future hold?

What do professional ‘futurists’ think about global disorder? With our current world seemingly in never ending Disorder that won’t be immediately cured by the election results, it can be hard to put your head above the parapet and try to see into the future. Furthermore, given the rapidly changing pace of technology, the 2050s, 2070s, and 2100s feel a long way out. Is it worth trying to forecast and plan for the future? If countries started planning now, could we see an Ordered future?   In this

Nov 5, 2024 • 40:58

Ep79. Trick or Treat? Spooky Trump or Visionless Harris?

Ep79. Trick or Treat? Spooky Trump or Visionless Harris?

To celebrate Halloween, Jason goes on the Keen On show hosted by friend of the Disorder Pod, Andrew Keen, to talk about America’s spooky election and the crazy conspiracy theories that are floating around this election cycle. What does it really mean when people say the 2020 election was stolen or that Bill Gates implants people with microchips via their Covid Vaccines?   Conspiracy theories are not only, not new, they are a core part of how campaigns of social change are articulated. The more r

Oct 31, 2024 • 47:48

Ep78. China’s Economic Disorder: Overproduction, Oversupply, Overcapacity, oh my!

Ep78. China’s Economic Disorder: Overproduction, Oversupply, Overcapacity, oh my!

Whether it is solar panels or steel, clothes or tech, many of the world’s manufactures are made in China. But did you know that the Chinese manufacturing sector is not really supply and demand driven and tends to produce far more than the rest of the world demands? Now… with a faltering post-COVID recovery, a housing market collapse, and worsening relationship with the West, is China’s economy in a genuine state of crisis? And could a troubled Chinese economy, unable to be buoyed by the recently

Oct 29, 2024 • 54:22

Ep.77. The System is Rigged: Conspiracy theories and the revenge of the losers

Ep.77. The System is Rigged: Conspiracy theories and the revenge of the losers

From immigrants eating pets, to Jewish space lasers starting wildfires, to 9/11 ‘trutherism’, our disordered world – and particularly the rhetoric surrounding the 2024 US Election – is awash with conspiracy theories. Are these theories: ways of venting anti-establishment anger, merely entertaining distractions, dangerous socially acceptable ways of conveying hate for minorities, or do they actually convey meaningful calls to revolutionary political action? What is the hidden meaning encoded in t

Oct 22, 2024 • 56:34

Ep76. Can Sanctions help us Order the Disorder?

Ep76. Can Sanctions help us Order the Disorder?

Following Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, the West initiated the most comprehensive economic war in human history. The US, EU, and UK announced a range of well-coordinated sanctions against Russia which included export restrictions, freezing assets, excluding the Russian Central Bank from SWIFT, and banning flights. It was an example of transcending the Enduring Disorder with the main Western powers working together seamlessly.    But seen in hindsight were these effective? Did

Oct 17, 2024 • 1:08:34

Ep75. What can Backgammon teach us about Ordering the Disorder?

Ep75. What can Backgammon teach us about Ordering the Disorder?

What can games of skill and chance, of risk and reward – like Poker and Backgammon– teach diplomats, policymakers, and interested participants about how to Order the Disorder?    In this episode, Jason Pack is joined by the former #1 Giant of Backgammon, Wilcox Snellings. In the 1990s, he was considered by his peers to be the best player in the world. The duo discuss: Wilcox’s upbringing, New York’s gambling culture, the milieu of high stakes gambling and its myriad lessons for confronting disor

Oct 15, 2024 • 38:24

Ep74. Part2: The Case for Palestinian Statehood

Ep74. Part2: The Case for Palestinian Statehood

(This episode flows from Ep 73 Part I: Commemorating the October 7 Massacre – please listen to it first if you have not.) In this second part of our series recapping a year of the Israel-Hamas War, Jason and Sir Vincent Fean (former British Consul General in Jerusalem and former Chairman of the Balfour Project) pivot their discussion to the current state of Palestinian political institutions, the Palestinian question on the international diplomatic stage; international legal rulings against Isra

Oct 8, 2024 • 39:30

Ep73. Part1: Commemorating the October 7 Massacre

Ep73. Part1: Commemorating the October 7 Massacre

A year ago today, the Middle East and the world changed forever. Hamas terrorists and Gazan civilians broke through the Gaza border fence into Israel and began massacring over a thousand Israelis and taking hundreds of hostages. A few weeks later, Israel began an aerial bombardment campaign and ground occupation of Gaza that has caused tens of thousands of casualties, leveled most of Gaza’s buildings, and seems to have no end in sight. To support Hamas, Hizbollah began firing missiles into North

Oct 7, 2024 • 54:50

Ep72. JD Vance vs Tim Walz: A gentlemanly Disorderer in a crisp suit vs a folksy Midwestern Orderer

Ep72. JD Vance vs Tim Walz: A gentlemanly Disorderer in a crisp suit vs a folksy Midwestern Orderer

Tuesday night’s vice-presidential debate between Republican JD Vance and Democrat Tim Walz was a breath of fresh air in some ways. The discussion was civil, with Vance in particular attempting to present himself as reasonable. But hiding underneath the crisp suit, eloquent banter, and agreeable disagreements, is a Disorderer, who could become President in 2028, if not sooner.  In this special episode focusing on the VP debate, and the threat Vance presents to democracy, Alex Hall Hall is joined

Oct 3, 2024 • 50:03

Ep71. Nasrallah Killed in Lebanon – What’s Next?

Ep71. Nasrallah Killed in Lebanon – What’s Next?

Over the weekend, Israel confirmed that they had killed Hezbollah’s charismatic leader – and terrorist master mind --  Hassan Nasrallah. He was frequently described as the leader of the globe’s most powerful non-state armed group.  So, what does Nasrallah’s exit from the stage and the ongoing Israeli bombardment of Lebanon, mean for the region? Amidst the humanitarian crisis and vast escalatory pressures, how can we Order the Disorder?   To find out, Arthur Snell and Jane Kinninmont recorded a s

Oct 1, 2024 • 48:55

Ep70. Peak Disorder in Bangladesh

Ep70. Peak Disorder in Bangladesh

‘Peak Disorder’ is Jason’s coinage for: the democratic world’s inability to exert ordering capacity to respond to new challenges except if they are existentially pressing because we are simply too divided, distracted, and overtaxed by existing crises. This phenomenon of ‘peak disorder’ is epitomized over the last two months by events in Bangladesh.     Bangladesh’s embattled prime minister, Sheikh Hasina, fled the country on Aug 5, 2024, after a brutal government crackdown against protests had r

Sep 26, 2024 • 55:48

Ep69. Life in North Korea, Kidnapping Stories, and Why Symbolism Matters with Dictators -- Jordan Harbinger on Tyrants and Disorderers

Ep69. Life in North Korea, Kidnapping Stories, and Why Symbolism Matters with Dictators -- Jordan Harbinger on Tyrants and Disorderers

What does getting kidnapped in Mexico City have in common with taking Western backpackers on tours of North Korean? Each provides key insights into the disordering essence of how autocracies function and why symbolism is important to dictatorial securocrats. This rather chatty episode builds off of our more academic and systematic look at similar themes in “Dictators’ Disordering Quest for Internal Security” with Marcel Dirsus last Tuesday in episode 67.    In this episode, Jason is joined by th

Sep 24, 2024 • 50:29

Ep68. Disorder’s One Year Anniversary

Ep68. Disorder’s One Year Anniversary

To celebrate Disorder’s One Year Anniversary, Alex and Jason recap the shows Greatest Hits, share their thoughts on their favourite guests; explain how their views of the world have changed over the last year; speculate on how today’s disorder is different from what came before; and disagree slightly agreeably about how the moral failings of the Anglo-American colonial empire of bygone days is or is not different from the Chinese and Russian empires of today. After proceeding through these remin

Sep 19, 2024 • 1:09:08

Ep67. Dictators’ Disordering Quest for Internal Security

Ep67. Dictators’ Disordering Quest for Internal Security

From Putin to Qadhafi, from Mohammed bin Salman to Trump… our current era of Enduring Disorder is filled with many Tyrants and Tyrant-wannabes. But why do Tyrants tend to seek Disorder rather than Order? The answer appears to lie in Tyrants’ Endless Quest for Regime Security. Dictators have a marked predilection to put their own desire to cling to power in the short-and medium-term above all other considerations – even if that means deliberately making their countries’ economies and militaries i

Sep 17, 2024 • 57:42

Ep.66 Harris taunts Trump; the Disorderer implodes, Order appears to prevail

Ep.66 Harris taunts Trump; the Disorderer implodes, Order appears to prevail

Jason and Alex explain the implications for global order of the first, and possibly onl,y 2024 Presidential Candidates Debate btw Harris and Trump. It was like a legendary heavyweight boxing match between a woman auditioning to be the mega-orderer-in-chief and the most well established disorderer the world has ever scene. And it ended in a more dramatic fashion than even an epic Howard Cosell play-by-play: Down goes Frazier, Down goes Frazier.   Trump acknowledged that he cannot go against Putin

Sep 12, 2024 • 54:58

Ep65. Why is Harris not appealing to middle - aged white men? Plus listener questions on migration, the NHS, and Ukraine

Ep65. Why is Harris not appealing to middle - aged white men? Plus listener questions on migration, the NHS, and Ukraine

This week, Jason and Alex catchup after an eventful summer. Alex discusses her main takeaways from her trip to Tbilisi for the McCain forum, while Jason talks about his conversations back in New Jersey with real American voters. These conversations are giving him a pit in his stomach. His mounting concern is that Harris may fall into the Clinton trap – turning off traditionally Democratic voting white middle-aged men who are not from the coastal elite. Jason has been speaking to some ‘real Ameri

Sep 10, 2024 • 59:11

Ep64. Part 2: Nationalism – Can it be reclaimed for Order?

Ep64. Part 2: Nationalism – Can it be reclaimed for Order?

Harvey Whitehouse, author of Inheritance: The Evolutionary Origins of the Modern World, rejoins Jason Pack for part 2 of their discussion. The duo discuss: whether nationalism can be used for good (rather than just as a calling card for Neo-Populists and disorderers); whether playing off of evolutionary biases towards in-group solidarity might be necessary to solve the collective action problems of today’s world, how putting policy creation in the hands of citizens assemblies might help us Order

Sep 3, 2024 • 42:01

Ep63. Part 1: Does our biology facilitate our Global Disorder?

Ep63. Part 1: Does our biology facilitate our Global Disorder?

Over the last two decades the seemingly ‘connecting’ phenomena of globalization and the internet have not made human communities more united. Seemingly paradoxically, aided by new technologies and interconnections, new forms of tribalism, superstition, in-group conformism, and out-group hatred have spread. Are these patterns of in-group solidarity and out-group distrust just the way humans are biologically wired to think?    In today’s episode, Jason Pack is joined by Harvey Whitehouse, Director

Aug 27, 2024 • 47:58

Ep62. Celebrating ONE MILLION Downloads

Ep62. Celebrating ONE MILLION Downloads

To celebrate ONE MILLION downloads (thanks mega orderers!), Jason is joined by his best friend and lecturer at the Swedish Defence College, Karl Karim Zakhour.    The two ruminate on a host of topics including: the rather surprising interconnections between neo-liberal reforms in Sweden and Syria and what they tell us about our era of Global Enduring Disorder; whether 2004 was the worst year in geopolitics, but the best year to drink arak in Damascus; whether a certain kind of vulgar Hegelianism

Aug 20, 2024 • 51:31

Ep61. Could AI help us Order the Disorder?

Ep61. Could AI help us Order the Disorder?

We all know about the potential threats as AI becomes more advanced. They range from spreading disinformation, undermining our democracy (as discussed in our previous episode with Miles Taylor), to completely upending the job market. But could AI be used to radically transform the way bureaucracy works (making it more efficient) and helping us Order the Disorder?    To discuss whether AI could be used as an ‘Ordering Force’ if regulated properly, Jason is joined by Marc Warner. Marc is the found

Aug 13, 2024 • 59:07

Ep60. Question Time: The ICC, Unelected Disorderers, and why Ukraine should not be forced to make peace

Ep60. Question Time: The ICC, Unelected Disorderers, and why Ukraine should not be forced to make peace

In this episode, Jason and Alex answer some questions from our mega orderers. They discuss: the ICC’s role as an ordering institution and its controversial positions on Israel/Palestine; the difference lens and standards through which we need to view elected vs. unelected Disorderers; and why the West can’t compromise with any of Putin’s demands – or even negotiate with him – but needs to exhibit ironclad resolve in backing Ukraine’s willingness to fight.     Twitter: @DisorderShow    Subscribe

Aug 8, 2024 • 38:47

Ep59. Part 2: Could a new global institution help Order the Disorder?

Ep59. Part 2: Could a new global institution help Order the Disorder?

In part 2 of our discussion with Jamie Metzl, author of Superconvergence, Jaime tells Jason about his idea for creating a new global body tasked with regulated existential risks. Jaime is a super order who sees most of the threats facing humanity as fundamentally linked and wishes to adopt one coherent and coordinated approach to Order the Disorder. Trying to unpick how such regulation could be done, Jamie, Jason and Alex each analyse the differences between an American and European approach to

Aug 6, 2024 • 49:32

Ep58. Part 1: Will the Burgeoning Bioeconomy be a force for Order or for Disorder?

Ep58. Part 1: Will the Burgeoning Bioeconomy be a force for Order or for Disorder?

Advanced biotech (CRISPR gene editing, gene drives, personalized medicine) could be the most Disordering technology ever invented. Techniques like gene drives could help us eradicate malaria by sterilising mosquitoes, but could they also spell the end of humanity (by unleashing unintended consequences)? Or release a new pandemic – think COVID-19 which was likely caused by a lab lead of a manmade super virus – into the population?    While biotech offers the potential to revolutionise everything,

Jul 30, 2024 • 50:26

Ep57. Tunisia’s Postponed Presidential elections

Ep57. Tunisia’s Postponed Presidential elections

The Economist called Tunisia a “light unto the Arab nations” just a decade ago, yet it may soon be fading into darkness. We talk with Tunisia’s Leading Opposition Presidential Candidate, Olfa Hamdi, to find out why.    Amidst this biggest year of elections in human history, the Tunisian election (initially scheduled for July 25 and now pushed back to October 6) has been largely forgotten in the mainstream media and even ignored by western policymakers. Yet, the dynamics at play in neo-populism’s

Jul 25, 2024 • 48:38

Ep56. Nothing became his presidency like the leaving of it

Ep56. Nothing became his presidency like the leaving of it

Legend has it that when King George III heard that George Washington, had decided to retire after his second term, he remarked: “If he does that, he will be the greatest man in the world.” On July 21, 2024, Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. can justifiably claim to have done one of the most heroic acts in human history.  Jason may be quoting the Guardian article (whose link is further down in the shownotes), but he is not exaggerating.  Few people voluntarily leave supreme power. Popes, Ayatollah, Pres

Jul 22, 2024 • 46:13

Ep55. NATO Summit 2024 – Did it help Order the Disorder?

Ep55. NATO Summit 2024 – Did it help Order the Disorder?

A week ago today, NATO wrapped up its 75th anniversary summit. At the event genuine  support of Ukraine was on full display. Discussion of how to Trump-proof NATO dominated the agenda, partnerships with NATO’s southern periphery were side stepped and the war in Gaza was largely ignored. All of this was choreographed to project unity and paper over disagreements within the alliance. But do such optics actually help to Order the Disorder?    To find out we’re joined by Jane Kinninmont – who was in

Jul 18, 2024 • 35:22

Ep54. If you come for the King, best not miss

Ep54. If you come for the King, best not miss

In bye gone moons, Trump inadvertently quoted Ralf Waldo Emerson, “When you strike at the King, you must kill him.” Yet on Saturday July 13, Donald Trump survived an attempt to gun him down at a campaign rally in Pennsylvania. Will this be one of those pivotal moments which go down in history - like the assassination of Lincoln; of Archduke Franz Ferdinand; JFK, RFK, or MLK? Or will it be like with Gavrilo Princip’s predecessors, assassins are only remembered if they succeed. Others tried to ass

Jul 16, 2024 • 33:01

Ep53. NATOs 75th Summit – Where the real Ordering happens?

Ep53. NATOs 75th Summit – Where the real Ordering happens?

NATO is the longest lasting and most successful military alliance in human history. Today NATOs 75th Summit in Washington, DC comes to a close. What can NATO’s past tell us about  its probably future?   To commemorate this symbolic occasion, Jason is joined by Peter Apps. He is the author of ‘Deterring Armageddon: A Biography of NATO’, a global defence columnist for Reuters, and a British Army reservist. He has reported from more than 20 countries over two decades, despite being paralyz

Jul 11, 2024 • 40:01

Ep52. Suburban Lib Dem Mums and Centrist Starmer Dads take back control

Ep52. Suburban Lib Dem Mums and Centrist Starmer Dads take back control

‘The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light; and they that dwell in the land of the shadow of Brexit, upon them hath the light shined.’ (Isaiah 9, v.2 with only one word changed) In retrospect, the melodies and lyrics of Handel’s Messiah appear quite appropriate for this most non-Messianic of Messiahs, the man of our moment, Sir Keir.  Therefore, despite Alex and Jason’s fear about the large Reform vote and their trepidation about Biden’s remaining in the US Presidential race, th

Jul 8, 2024 • 59:54

Ep51. UK Elections: A lone bright spot for global Order?

Ep51. UK Elections: A lone bright spot for global Order?

Later this week as they go to the polls, UK voters will likely celebrate their very own ‘Independence from Neo-Populists Day’. With Labour widely expected to secure a large majority… could this be a chance for Order within an increasingly Disordered West? If he cruises to victory, as expected, how will Sir Keir manage his relations with the EU and US? In this episode, Jason Pack and Alex Hall Hall discuss the rather uninspiring election campaign so far. They analyse why Labour’s play-it-safe ‘G

Jul 2, 2024 • 44:27

Ep50. The Emperor has no clothes - Biden’s disorderly debate performance

Ep50. The Emperor has no clothes - Biden’s disorderly debate performance

After months of the grandees in the Democratic party telling the public that Biden’s age was nothing to worry about: the Global Orderer-in Chief has been shown to have no clothes and his adult diapers were not changed prior to his appearing before an audience of tens of millions. As Mega-Orderers know, Jason is prone to melodrama, but in this instance the Sky Really Is Falling!  June 27, 2024 may go down there as one of those dates like Dec 7, 1941 and June 23, 2016: Dates that will live on in i

Jun 28, 2024 • 33:48

Ep49. Did WWI start our era of Disorder?

Ep49. Did WWI start our era of Disorder?

Exactly 110 years ago, a malnourished teenager with a pistol disordered the world. On Sunday the 28th of June 1914, Gavrilo Princip fired two bullets. They hit their targets -- killing both the Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the Austro-Hungarian imperial crown, and his wife, Sophie.     That event ended the age of the traditional European empires, unleashed the mud and blood of the Great War, catalysed the fall of the Tsar and theoretical Marxism’s transformation into a totalitarian reali

Jun 28, 2024 • 49:17

Ep48. Hotter or Poorer? Should Gulf States care about global warming?

Ep48. Hotter or Poorer? Should Gulf States care about global warming?

We celebrate 9 full months of Disorder with a live studio recording. Climate change hasn’t been acted on coherently by a coalition of major powers, while certain governments and businesses have prevented climate action choosing to pursue short-term goals. Is this to be expected? Is it rational for some governments and business to pull in different directions or are they missing the plot and thinking too short-term?    But then again, is it in the long-term interest of most major states, citizens

Jun 25, 2024 • 55:16

Ep47. Has the essence of Warfare changed?

Ep47. Has the essence of Warfare changed?

Renowned Israeli Military historian Martin Van Creveld explains to Disorder listeners how certain essential elements of warfare have remained constant overtime. These continuities have been frequently overlooked in the sensationalizing media coverage of the wars in Gaza and Ukraine.  In major interstate warfare, the defense retains its traditional advantages just as it did when Carl von Clausewitz penned his famous ‘On War’; in counter insurgency warfare separating insurgents from the shelter th

Jun 20, 2024 • 34:47

Ep46. Is a truly progressive foreign policy compatible with Ordering the Disorder?

Ep46. Is a truly progressive foreign policy compatible with Ordering the Disorder?

Heretofore, this podcast has largely examined the blame that neo-liberals, neo-conservatives, and neo-populists on the Right bear in causing our era of global enduring disorder. Now is the turn to set our crosshairs on the disorder that comes from the ideas of the Left. Recent events reveal that the Left lacks a coherent vision of the global economy, of global institutions, and possibly of the objectives of Western foreign policy in general. To be intellectually honest, we must ask is the progre

Jun 18, 2024 • 51:28

Ep45. Part 2: Is Britain in the Moral Superiority Industry?

Ep45. Part 2: Is Britain in the Moral Superiority Industry?

The sordid tale of Tory mega donor, Mohamed Amersi, and his libel suit against Charlotte Leslie was an attempt to turn money into control over the truth. To our mind, there is no greater example of how the underlying principles of our era of Global Enduring Disorder connect bribery in Kazakhstan and Kathmandu to Brexit, the Ukraine war, and shadowy consultancies which offer pay-for-play access to the British elite.     In part 2 of Jason’s conversation with Tom Burgis, the duo talk about some of

Jun 11, 2024 • 58:32

Ep44. Part 1: Are Corruption and Kleptocracy at the very heart of the Enduring Disorder?

Ep44. Part 1: Are Corruption and Kleptocracy at the very heart of the Enduring Disorder?

Corruption, in one form or another, is as old as civilization. As long as there have been governmental authorities, private businesspeople have found ways to bribe them to get preferential deals. So, what is different about corruption in our era of Global Enduring Disorder?  To find out, Jason Pack is joined by Tom Burgis -- award winning investigative journalist, and author of Cuckooland: Where the Rich Own the Truth. In this episode (Part 1 of 2), the duo discuss how laws and decision

Jun 4, 2024 • 1:00:30

Ep43. Are we having enough babies? And listeners questions

Ep43. Are we having enough babies? And listeners questions

At the end of the 20th century many world governments sought to lower birth rates – e.g. China’s One Child Policy – but now in 2024… most major world governments are focussed on bringing fertility rates up. In fact, nearly all of the developed world is facing a declining and aging population. Hence, for the first time in human history a majority of the globe’s population now lives under governments with a stated intent to influence childbearing.  So why do so many governments seem obsessed with

May 28, 2024 • 1:02:45

Ep42. Britain's True Independence (from Neopopulists) Day

Ep42. Britain's True Independence (from Neopopulists) Day

Jason is so so so excited he just just just can’t hide it. He sees the hand of a providential mega orderer at work with the UK going to a general election on July 4th. He doesn’t understand why his British friends poopoo his man crush on Starmer, because he sees Sir Keir as truly messianic in his non-messianic-ness and as a better, younger, more competent version of Biden.     To get a native-born insider’s view on the election, Jason is joined by his Scottish doppelganger (Jane Kinninmont) to d

May 25, 2024 • 1:03:45

Ep41. Iran’s Disorderer-in-Chief Dies; and as Russia Advances, Is Kharkiv at risk of being turned into Mariupol?

Ep41. Iran’s Disorderer-in-Chief Dies; and as Russia Advances, Is Kharkiv at risk of being turned into Mariupol?

The sun is shining, the flowers are in bloom, there is a dense fog over the Iranian-Azeri border, what time does that make it? Russo-Ukrainian Summer Offensive Time!     This episode starts with a short emergency-cast about the crash of the Iranian President’s helicopter due to fog. Jason briefly investigates if the death of this ‘disorderer-in-chief’ is likely to bring any more order to the Middle East region, before rejoining our regularly scheduled programming about Ukraine.    Over the last

May 21, 2024 • 1:11:48

Ep40. What’s next for Georgia and its 'foreign agent’ law?

Ep40. What’s next for Georgia and its 'foreign agent’ law?

Earlier this week, Georgia passed its controversial ‘foreign agent’ law. Under the bill, NGOs and independent media that receive more than 20% of their funding from foreign donors would have to register as organisations "bearing the interests of a foreign power”. The law has been met with mass protests across the country. So what does the passing of this bill mean for Georgia’s hope to become an EU and NATO member? What could it mean for the countries elections later this year? And how should

May 16, 2024 • 45:38

Ep39. What Role, if any, is there for Empathy in Ordering the Disorder?

Ep39. What Role, if any, is there for Empathy in Ordering the Disorder?

Part of the Enduring Disorder is our increasingly divided and partisan narratives. Trump vs. Biden, Leavers against Remainers, Palestinians and Israelis. Many of today’s political actors appear unable to understand and empathise with their opponent’s points of view. Why? Potential because social media, cancel culture, and increased partisanship seems to have actually decreased people’s ability to feel empathy or to desire it from their politicians.   But should all our politicians just be more e

May 14, 2024 • 40:29

Ep38. Could Germany and South Korea go nuclear?

Ep38. Could Germany and South Korea go nuclear?

Putin’s nuclear threats over Ukraine and the constant potential of an Iranian/Israeli escalation have brought concerns over nuclear proliferation back up the geopolitical agenda. Western-aligned Asian countries – like South Korea and Saudi Arabia – have begun talking openly about whether they might need their own nukes. Meanwhile, even Germany – one of the most avowedly anti-nuclear countries in Europe – is now having a new debate about whether there should be a “Eurobomb”.    All these countrie

May 7, 2024 • 53:08

Ep37. (Part II) Former Armenian President Sarkissian on: Can a Club of Small States Order the Disorder?

Ep37. (Part II) Former Armenian President Sarkissian on: Can a Club of Small States Order the Disorder?

Small states like Qatar, Ireland, Singapore, Jordan, and Botswana are thriving in our disordered world. They’re smart, agile, and are implementing novel solutions to the challenges of the 21st century. So what can the globe learn from them?    In part 2 of his conversation with Dr Armen Sarkissian - Armenia’s former president and prime minister – Jason discusses Armen’s book, ‘The Small States Club: How Small Smart Powers Can Save the World’. They look at how: 1) successful small states could us

Apr 30, 2024 • 56:35

Ep36. (Part I) Former Armenian President Sarkissian on: Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day

Ep36. (Part I) Former Armenian President Sarkissian on: Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day

April 24th marks Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day, but the tragic Ottoman massacres of Armenians of over a century ago have been largely forgotten in mainstream Western consciousness. Why?    In the first of a two-part series, Jason is joined by Dr Armen Sarkissian, a world-renowned theoretical physicist, diplomat, and businessman. He was Armenia’s president from 2018 to 2022 and also its prime minister from 1996 to 1997. In their interview, they discuss the century old genocide, the novel roun

Apr 23, 2024 • 1:01:29

Ep35. Israel Strikes Back: Foolish Revenge or Calculated De-escalation?

Ep35. Israel Strikes Back: Foolish Revenge or Calculated De-escalation?

In the early morning hours of 19 April, American officials told major news outlets that an Israeli missile had struck central Iran near its nuclear sites. No one was harmed. Officially, the Israelis are not claiming to have attacked; and Iran is not claiming to have been attacked. It is distinctly possible that this pinprick strike combined with denials on all sides will satisfy both parties and avert further retaliation. Conversely, it is also distinctly possible that it will lead to further cy

Apr 19, 2024 • 50:18

Ep34. The Battle for Taiwan

Ep34. The Battle for Taiwan

Taiwan is not only the epicentre of the world’s semi-conductor industry and a vibrant democracy. It is arguably the most important square on the chessboard of East Asian geopolitics. And the Taiwanese have watched very carefully how China has absorbed Hong Kong.  The ‘one country, two systems’ mantra was a total failure.    China is not planning a peaceful union with Taiwan. China is building its military at a rate not seen since World War II. The Chinese explain their military buildup by claimi

Apr 18, 2024 • 38:35

Ep33. Iran attacks Israel: Start of the Wars of Gog and Magog or an opportunity for regional cooperation and de-escalation?

Ep33. Iran attacks Israel: Start of the Wars of Gog and Magog or an opportunity for regional cooperation and de-escalation?

In the early morning hours of April 14th Iranian drones and missiles were launched towards Israel. The launch was framed as retaliation for an Israeli attack on the Iranian diplomatic compound in Damascus on April 1st.    Nearly 99% of the projectiles were intercepted. Although little physical or human damage was sustained, regional relations have been fundamentally recast: Sunni Arab states like Jordan and possibly Saudi Arabia allowed the US, UK, and Israel to use their territory and intel ass

Apr 15, 2024 • 43:56

Bonus Episode: Oh Yeah-Woman: who is winning the narrative battle in Yemen, the Red Sea, and Gaza?

Bonus Episode: Oh Yeah-Woman: who is winning the narrative battle in Yemen, the Red Sea, and Gaza?

A decisively new kind of maritime terrorism has now emerged. Last weekend, two more British-linked ships were attacked in the Red Sea by Houthi pirates. This comes after the sinking of the Rubymar on March 2nd, which released 21,000 metric tons of ammonium, constituting a major ecological disaster.     Jason is joined by Laura Cretney: a Yemen expert and founder of Pink Jinn, an online marketplace focused on supporting small businesses and communities affected by conflict in the MENA region.  Th

Apr 11, 2024 • 45:30

Ep32. The Caribbean: Global Enduring Paradise or crossroads of the Global Enduring Disorder?

Ep32. The Caribbean: Global Enduring Paradise or crossroads of the Global Enduring Disorder?

Beneath the Caribbean’s idyllic seafronts and sandy beaches lies a darker truth. Illicit money flows, corruption, and organised crime leave these small states hollowed out and open to state capture. In fact, the failure of Caribbean states to provide services to their populations and to generate income has led some of them to sell their sovereignty to their highest bidder.    In this episode, Jason Pack is joined by Arthur Snell, host of the Behind the Lines podcast and former British High Commi

Apr 9, 2024 • 57:54

Bonus Episode: Which country is more Disorderly – The UK or US?

Bonus Episode: Which country is more Disorderly – The UK or US?

In this bonus episode, Alex and Jason catch up after a long absence and chew the fat. They discuss the tradeoffs of life in the US vs UK delving into the Convenience vs Inspiration dichotomy. They  try to decide who moved to the more chaotic place and where life is more livable and unpack thorny philosophical problems like have Britain’s public services become enshittified just as American tech platforms have?   Plus, they discuss the Disorder of getting car insurance in the UK, the Conservative

Apr 4, 2024 • 37:42

Ep31. Is India a neopopulist Disorderer or a potential Orderer?

Ep31. Is India a neopopulist Disorderer or a potential Orderer?

India is arguably the world’s only rising great power. As the world’s largest democracy and soon to be third largest economy it is the globe’s most serious aspirant for becoming the 6th permanent member of the UN Security Council. Despite this economic and foreign policy heft, since independence in 1947, India has stridently resisted being aligned with any one particular geopolitical “camp”.  It has always wanted to retain its “strategic autonomy” and to avoid being treated as a junior partner t

Apr 2, 2024 • 50:12

Ep30. Is there Order in the universe? Or are we all the playthings of chance?

Ep30. Is there Order in the universe? Or are we all the playthings of chance?

Can we ever truly achieve Order in the international system? Or is life itself just a deterministic jumble of uncontrollable events? Do humans crave order so much that they perceive it even when it is absent – leading to conspiracy theories? And should policymakers avoid optimization and prediction and embrace experimentation, resilience, and slack to fix the problems of our era of Global Enduring Disorder?    This week we celebrate the six-month anniversary of Disorder, by talking with a guest

Mar 26, 2024 • 47:29

Ep29. Freedom in the world is measurably declining… what can we do?

Ep29. Freedom in the world is measurably declining… what can we do?

Every year, Freedom House releases an annual ‘global democracy health check’. According to it, the world is getting sicker. In this year’s ‘Freedom in the World’ report -- which reviews the state of democracy, civil, and political rights in every country -- political and civil liberties have got worse in 52 countries, while in only 21 countries have they improved.     What dynamics lie behind this trend? And what does it signify for the future?     To find out, Alex is joined by the President of

Mar 19, 2024 • 37:01

Ep28. The Rematch of the Disorderer-in-Chief vs Joseph Robinette Status-Quo Jr.

Ep28. The Rematch of the Disorderer-in-Chief vs Joseph Robinette Status-Quo Jr.

In this year of monumental elections, there is none which looms larger than the grandaddy of them all: the 2024 US Presidential Elections. With the US Primary season all but over, the match up appears set between the “disorderer-in-chief” Donald Trump and Joe Biden. But in the wake of Super Tuesday is that match up really set? Or might an open convention scenerio emerge leading to last minute switch up? And what are the global implications for a long and protracted race between two candidates wi

Mar 12, 2024 • 1:05:06

Ep27. Can we Order the entire cosmos – along with our alien friends?

Ep27. Can we Order the entire cosmos – along with our alien friends?

When it comes to working together to face external challenges, no challenge could be greater than extraterrestrial life… and this seemingly abstract problem could be more pressing than you think. In 2023, Air Force Colonel David Grusch spoke before Congress to present his firsthand evidence of alien spacecraft remains and non-human ‘biologics’. In his testimony, he claimed that parts of the United States Government and defense contractors were hiding these facts from disclosure to Congress. So,

Mar 5, 2024 • 48:48

Ep26. Was Alexei Navalny a Martyr for Democracy?

Ep26. Was Alexei Navalny a Martyr for Democracy?

In the days following Navalny’s murder, Western leaders have made all too predictable speeches and issued all too predictable condemnations. But as of yet, very little concrete action has been taken to respond to the murder of Russia’s most prominent opposition politician. The West talks the talk, but has yet to walk the walk. How should Biden, Sunak and Ursula Van Der Leyen hit Putin where it actually hurts and genuinely punish him for his actions?     In this episode of Disorder, Jason Pack si

Feb 27, 2024 • 58:43

Bonus Episode: How should the West respond to Navalny’s murder: Can the Munich Security Conference help order that response?

Bonus Episode: How should the West respond to Navalny’s murder: Can the Munich Security Conference help order that response?

Wars are raging in Ukraine and the Middle East. Russia’s most famous opposition politician (Alexei Navalany) has just been murdered. Meanwhile, the international institutions set up after World War 2 to uphold peace and security no longer seem fit for purpose. Into this space comes the annual Munich Security Forum. Its flagship event, which took place last weekend, is its gathering of hundreds of the world’s top security experts and decision makers in Munich each year, to debate – and hopefully

Feb 22, 2024 • 43:12

Ep25. Could Artificial Intelligence-powered disinformation campaigns cause electoral mayhem?

Ep25. Could Artificial Intelligence-powered disinformation campaigns cause electoral mayhem?

In late January 2024, New Hampshire residents received a strange phone call. The voice of Joe Biden was telling them not to vote in the Democratic Primaries.  But it wasn’t actually the President on the line… It was a deep faked robot. This was part of an unlawful attempt to disrupt the New Hampshire Presidential Primary Election. That disinformation campaign was created by easily accessible technology. Over the next months, more sophisticated attempts are almost bound to emerge seeking to disru

Feb 20, 2024 • 53:23

Bonus Episode: What has sixty years on planet earth taught Alex? Plus, listener questions.

Bonus Episode: What has sixty years on planet earth taught Alex? Plus, listener questions.

As Alex turns 60, she and Jason  look back at how the world has changed since she first decided to enter the diplomatic service. Meanwhile, Jason explains how his ‘lived experiences’ across the Middle East have shaped the way he views American foreign policy. The Boomer vs Gen X dynamics are laid bared for all to see. Then the duo answer listener questions: namely, what UK/US support for Israel should look like, why some countries are less corrupt than others and what role Western powers should

Feb 15, 2024 • 52:42

Ep24. What does South Africa stand to gain from accusing Israel of Genocide in Gaza?

Ep24. What does South Africa stand to gain from accusing Israel of Genocide in Gaza?

Much ink has been spilled about the legal definition of the crime of Genocide and if Israel has committed it in Gaza or if Hamas committed it on October 7th. In this pod, we are not examining those legal or moral issues. Adopting a non-legal, and non-humanitarian frame of mind, we are going to examine what are the underlying geopolitical, historical, and diplomatic reasons for South Africa bringing a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ)?   In this episode of D

Feb 13, 2024 • 42:39

Ep23. Is the democratic world morally responsible for allowing Putin's rise?  With Evgenia Kara-Murza

Ep23. Is the democratic world morally responsible for allowing Putin's rise? With Evgenia Kara-Murza

In April 2022, undeterred by his previous two poisonings, Russian opposition politician, historian, and free speech advocate Vladimir Kara-Murza made the incredibly courageous decision to re-enter Russia – despite his known opposition to Putin’s invasion of Ukraine two months earlier. What happened next was as tragic as it was predictable. A year later Vladimir was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Last Monday, he disappeared from the Siberian penal colony where he was being held, only much later

Feb 6, 2024 • 1:00:27

Bonus Episode: Can the Two Matts Help Us Order the Disorder?

Bonus Episode: Can the Two Matts Help Us Order the Disorder?

We wanted to let you all in on a well guarded secret: there are actually other podcasts out there that try to Order the Disorder. The team behind the New European magazine produce a podcast called ‘The Two Matts’. We were really inspired by their recent treatment of how Germany is dealing with its neopopulism problem. In this bonus episode of Disorder, we present an excerpt from The Two Matts Jan 26th Show ‘Germany Fighting Fascism’ where Matt and Matt talk about the massive street protests agai

Feb 1, 2024 • 19:17

Ep22. What are Iran’s and Egypt’s roles in the evolving Middle East crisis?

Ep22. What are Iran’s and Egypt’s roles in the evolving Middle East crisis?

This week we examine the regional roles played by Egypt and Iran and discuss British diplomacy towards those countries over the last decade or so. Iran and Egypt offer a fascinating study in contrasts – in terms of their dealings with Israel and Hamas, as well as their posturing relative to the outside world.   So who better to help us understand these countries regional role than Alex’s former boss, Sir Geoffrey Adams, who served as British Ambassador both to Iran (2006-9) and to Egypt (2018-21

Jan 30, 2024 • 59:55

Ep21. Is the EU a trade giant, but a political dwarf?

Ep21. Is the EU a trade giant, but a political dwarf?

In this episode, Jason Pack and Alexandra Hall Hall open with their thoughts on the EU’s strengths and weaknesses – concluding that the old adage, ‘The EU is an economic colossus and a political pygmy’, is not too far off. To investigate how the EU leverages its trade clout, Alex interviews John Clarke – a British national who worked for more than 30 years as a trade negotiator for the EU. John tells us the tricks of the trade: how the US would steal trade dossiers during negotiations, how the p

Jan 23, 2024 • 50:57

Bonus Episode: Oh Yeah, Man, why are the Houthis disordering global shipping in the Red Sea?

Bonus Episode: Oh Yeah, Man, why are the Houthis disordering global shipping in the Red Sea?

As the Houthis attack ships in the Red Sea, Arthur Snell and Jason explore: 1) How this horrible crisis is actually an opportunity to create a coalition of orderers; 2) how Iran is not really able to use the Houthis as a proxy; 3) how one interpretation of the Houthi actions is as ‘global disordering’ rather than specifically supporting the Palestinians or a given outcome in Gaza; and 4) how there is an opportunity for a uniquely constructive role for Britain, drawing on its credibility and expe

Jan 18, 2024 • 50:12

Ep20. Corruption in Plain Sight

Ep20. Corruption in Plain Sight

In this episode, Jason Pack and Alexandra Hall Hall disentangle the related concepts of corruption, illegality, embezzlement, and bribery. They discuss what happens when the laws of a given country allow legalized versions of ‘corruption in plain sight’ to flourish. They’ll look at two different case studies of this phenomenon: Britain and Libya. First, Alex talks to journalist and author Sam Bright about the unique type of ‘pay for access’ corruption that has infiltrated the British establishme

Jan 16, 2024 • 52:25

Ep19. Water Wars – myth or reality?

Ep19. Water Wars – myth or reality?

In this episode, Jason Pack is joined by Arthur Snell, and they speak to Professor Naho Mirumachi. Naho is a specialist on the politics of the environment. She is particularly interested in ‘the wars that were not fought’ over water usage. The trio discuss: what lessons can be learnt from international governance of water usage and other related collective action challenges, will there actually be ‘Water Wars’ in the future, and the challenges of international coordination over the usage of wate

Jan 9, 2024 • 42:54

Ep18. Can the non-West Order the Disorder? BRICs and the future of global institutions

Ep18. Can the non-West Order the Disorder? BRICs and the future of global institutions

On the 1st of January 2024, BRICS (an international forum of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa), are welcoming in new members to form BRICS+. In this episode, Alex Hall Hall talks with Anjali Bhatt about what the bloc aims to achieve and what the addition of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ethiopia, Egypt, and the UAE might entail for the organization. They’ll also discuss Argentina’s new disruptive leader, why he might withdraw from BRICS+, and whether the expansion could mean the strengthenin

Jan 2, 2024 • 45:26

Ep17. What novel disorder lies ahead in 2024? And how do we bring the holiday spirit into diplomacy?

Ep17. What novel disorder lies ahead in 2024? And how do we bring the holiday spirit into diplomacy?

In our Christmas special, Jason Pack and Alex Hall Hall look back at the first year of the disorder pod, and forecast a bit about the next. They discuss 2024 as a record-breaking year of global elections, answer some listeners’ questions about topics like Central Asia, Gaza, Western hypocrisy, and Palestinian History.    They also share a bit about themselves, their families’ holiday menus, and their escape routes. Like, who knew that Alex likes doing puzzles so much and that Jason is a super fa

Dec 24, 2023 • 48:25

Ep16. The Struggle for Leadership of the Islamic World

Ep16. The Struggle for Leadership of the Islamic World

In this episode, Alex and Jason investigate if major Islamic nations can exercise global leadership over the Israel-Palestine conflict and propose implementable solutions. They also examine the leverage that Arab Gulf States now have over the West, in general, and Britian, in specific. Jason talks to James M. Dorsey, host of the Turbulent World podcast, to investigate three of the principal countries battling simultaneously for leadership of the Islamic World and to set the direction of ‘moderat

Dec 19, 2023 • 47:17

Ep15. NATO: an alliance for the future? With Kurt Volker

Ep15. NATO: an alliance for the future? With Kurt Volker

In this week’s episode, Jason and Alex are joined by Kurt Volker, former US Ambassador to NATO and former US’s Special Representative to Ukraine. The wide-ranging discussion tries to unpick NATO’s role in our increasingly disordered world. They also examine what makes NATO successful where the UN and other international organizations falter. They discuss both the 2023 NATO summit in Lithuania and the 2023 Tbilisi International Conference, entitled “Defeating Putinism.” They also look forward to

Dec 12, 2023 • 47:02

Bonus Episode: The moral and military dynamics at play in Ukraine and Gaza with David Patrikarakos

Bonus Episode: The moral and military dynamics at play in Ukraine and Gaza with David Patrikarakos

In this bonus episode, Jason discusses his mom’s Thanksgiving stuffing recipe as he is joined by our roving correspondent – David Patrikarakos – who missed Turkey Day in London choosing to go to Ukraine and Gaza instead. The pair ‘drone’ on about the use of Iranian Shahid drones in both conflicts, the similarities and differences in the moral and military calculus in Ukraine as opposed to Gaza, and how today’s easy access to technology means traditionally lesser military powers can achieve a mod

Dec 7, 2023 • 46:39

Ep14. Is Disinformation Destroying Democracy?

Ep14. Is Disinformation Destroying Democracy?

Disinformation and culture wars are an existential problem for democracies. They foster negative feedback loops: whereby internal divisions inside democracies make us more vulnerable to hostile external actors spewing misinformation, who then exploit those divisions to create more vulnerability to misinformation, culminating in culture wars. These kind of negative feedback loops are another symptom of our era of Global Enduring Disorder.   In this week’s episode, Alex and Jason are joined by Lau

Dec 5, 2023 • 46:38

Ep13. It’s getting hot in here

Ep13. It’s getting hot in here

Climate change is the perfect example of what happens on a pressing global challenge when no one leads, or even takes responsibility, for a collective action problem – nothing happens, the crisis builds until it becomes seemingly unmanageable/unfixable. Without strong collective action and tough compromises, climate change will get more and more geopolitically intractable making life saving compromises even harder.  In this episode, Fiona Harvey explores the importance coordination mechanisms su

Nov 28, 2023 • 46:36

Bonus Episode: NATO, Europe, China, and the Israel-Hamas War

Bonus Episode: NATO, Europe, China, and the Israel-Hamas War

In a special Thanksgiving bonus episode of the podcast, Jason is joined by Alessandro Politi, the Director of the NATO Defense College Foundation in Rome. They discuss: Alessandro’s Axis lineage, what role if any NATO has in the Middle East, what Europe’s unique role should be in the Israel-Hamas war (potentially as a counterbalance to America), how global affairs look from Taiwan (where Alessandro just was), and whether the Ukraine-Russia and Israel-Gaza Wars might act as a detonator f

Nov 23, 2023 • 29:03

Ep12. Neo-Populism in the US with Tom Malinowski

Ep12. Neo-Populism in the US with Tom Malinowski

In this week’s episode, Alex and Jason are joined by former US congressman Tom Malinowski (D-NJ). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Malinowski. In addition to talking about why Tom ziplined to his wedding, they discuss: how to end the war in Ukraine, smear campaigns in American elections, Russian misinformation, why democracy seems to be on the back foot globally, how American and British Neo-populism is connected to the rise of authoritarianism abroad, and why the US and UK experience so many s

Nov 21, 2023 • 46:08

Ep11. The Psychology of Chaos

Ep11. The Psychology of Chaos

Diplomacy is a game, and geopolitics is a psychological sport. Though we may root for the ‘democratic good guys’, it is often the disordering ‘autocratic bad guys’ that achieve their aims through effective use of psychological tactics like bluffing and intimidation.    In this episode, we meet Jonathan Powell, Tony Blair’s former Chief of Staff, who helped negotiate landmark treaties like the Good Friday Agreement. He tells us how our leaders could use various skills to get to mutually beneficia

Nov 14, 2023 • 50:33

Ep10. How international actors can stabilize the ongoing Israel-Hamas War and prevent a regional escalation

Ep10. How international actors can stabilize the ongoing Israel-Hamas War and prevent a regional escalation

In this episode, Alex Hall Hall talks to Tom Fletcher, the former British Ambassador to Lebanon. Tom and Alex discuss the Palestinian refugee and surrounding Arab states narratives as an entry point to examine whether there’s any risk of the war spreading. They delve deeper into: the rationale for humanitarian de-escalation, the interests and motives of players like Lebanon, Hezbollah and Iran, and what international actors like the UK, the US and the UN need to be doing to stabilize the situati

Nov 7, 2023 • 39:50

Ep9. The 2023 Israeli - Hamas war: Could the Qataris help us order the disorder

Ep9. The 2023 Israeli - Hamas war: Could the Qataris help us order the disorder

As the Israeli-Hamas war enters a new phase, Alex and Jason discuss how hard it is to speak publicly and diplomatically about an issue that’s become so partisan and so emotive. Plus: the pair talk about Jason’s idea for interim post-war governance of Gaza involving a Qatari-Saudi-Egyptian-Emirati condominium which would need to be mediated by American and British diplomats. Although only a medium-term solution, Jason believes it could give key regional players a stake in forging peace in the reg

Oct 30, 2023 • 56:48

Ep8. Rules for the Ungoverned

Ep8. Rules for the Ungoverned

Across the world, there are vast swathes of the planet (especially our oceans and atmosphere) that have been left without governance, and into that space have stepped terrorist groups, disordering non-state actors, drug cartels, and polluting and exploitative corporations. So how can global institutions help bring a semblance of order back to these places ? In this episode, Sam Quinones will help us look at how rogue actors have helped to perpetuate disorder across the world – for example, in Me

Oct 24, 2023 • 48:41

Ep7. Dirty money is everywhere, as Wall St and St Petersburg are on the same page

Ep7. Dirty money is everywhere, as Wall St and St Petersburg are on the same page

From London to Miami, illicit cash has been flowing through the West’s financial systems. Coordination failures have allowed disruptors like Russia to prop up a transnational kleptocracy – while groups like the UN, IMF and NATO are ill-equipped to deal with this problem, especially as key players in Britain and America, actively encourage the financial deregulation on which the kleptocrats thrive.  In this episode we look at the origins of globalized finance and how illicit money flows cause gl

Oct 17, 2023 • 55:29

Bonus Episode: The 2023 Israeli-Hamas war: A Symptom of our era of Disorder?

Bonus Episode: The 2023 Israeli-Hamas war: A Symptom of our era of Disorder?

On Saturday October the 7th the world awoke to the most horrific, chaotic, and game changing Arab-Israeli war in 50 years. But despite how tragic the news was, it wasn’t at all surprising. Internal divisions and partisan dysfunction inside previously functioning democracies (like Israel) have left previously secure and united societies, divided and open to their enemies. This has been an open invitation to those who wish to actively disorder global affairs.  In this bonus episode, Jason Pack an

Oct 12, 2023 • 36:34

Ep6. NATO: A Model for Ordering the Disorder?

Ep6. NATO: A Model for Ordering the Disorder?

Nation states no longer work effectively in tandem. Gone are the days of hegemonic US power directly ordering the allies. Furthermore, groups like the UN are ineffective, with disruptors often calling the shots. However, NATO stands apart as an example of how countries can work together successfully and how a global institution can remain largely uncontroversial, while doing serious coordinating work to solve real world problems.    In this episode our hosts and guests relate their perspectives

Oct 10, 2023 • 54:49

Ep5. Migration, climate, and our era of disorder

Ep5. Migration, climate, and our era of disorder

Migration has become one of the most emotive political topics. Fears surrounding the topic are essential to the rise of Neo-Populism. All the while, migration is increasing; over the past decade over 50 million more people have been moving internationally than in previous decades. So how does migration work (or not work) in our era of global disorder? What problems does it solve and what problems does it create? Can disordered migration be curbed and the benefits of ‘orderly’ migration achieved

Oct 3, 2023 • 43:48

Ep4. Who is leading the disorder?

Ep4. Who is leading the disorder?

It has long been held that the primary disorderers on the global stage are China and Russia. Let’s not forget, though, that medium powers, such as Iran, are also able to majorly disorder geopolitics. Meanwhile, imploded post-conflict countries like Libya are capable of injecting serious financial and jihadi contagion into neighbouring states and fuelling the Global Enduring Disorder.    In this episode, we discuss how the tooth and nail struggle for global leadership leads some states to play th

Sep 26, 2023 • 44:36

Ep2. Who Referees Cyberspace?

Ep2. Who Referees Cyberspace?

Although the birth of the internet was an interplay between American defense contractors and American tech firms, the US government actively chose to not regulate the commercial aspects of what it had birthed.   From disinformation to cyber warfare, how can we better control the internet and stop it from reinforcing the Global Enduring Disorder? In this episode, former FBI Agent Asha Rangappa helps us understand what makes these new technologies so disruptive and how the West’s adversaries under

Sep 19, 2023 • 46:20

Ep3. The Rise of the Neo-Populists

Ep3. The Rise of the Neo-Populists

Over the past few decades leaders like Trump, Orban, and Bolsonaro have ridden a wave of popular outrage to rise to power. But what came first: the Neo-Populists or the era of Global Enduring Disorder?    In this episode we chart the rise of the Neo-Populists, their impact on global order, and what we can do to stop them. Sean Wilentz explains the difference between real populism (like Bernie Sanders) and ‘faux’ or neo-populists (like Trump), while Anne Applebaum takes us through the missed oppo

Sep 19, 2023 • 43:41

Ep1. Welcome to the Global Enduring Disorder

Ep1. Welcome to the Global Enduring Disorder

We are living through an unprecedented era. International institutions like the UN are incapable of tackling global challenges, disordering powers like China and Russia are actively promoting chaos rather than order, and democratic countries are not effectively coordinating on transnational threats. The result? An era of Global Enduring Disorder has swept the world. We see it in the rise and fall of Trump, Bolsonaro, and Boris, inaction on climate change, and never-ending civil wars in Yemen, Uk

Sep 19, 2023 • 51:43

Disorder - Coming 19th September

Disorder - Coming 19th September

Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder.   The Disorder podcast teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, NATO

Sep 11, 2023 • 2:31

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