The four layers of building a new jurisdiction, and why the network state might be a backup layer for the world
- Petar Čekerevac is a Senior Fellow at Atlas Network, working on their Project on Decentralizing Technologies. He was executive manager of Libertarian Club Libek in Belgrade, he helped set up the Serbian media outlet Talas, and he is an advisor to Bitcoin District in Próspera.
The conversation starts in Serbia in the 1990s, with three wars and a dictatorship just behind it, and a teenager working out that neither the centre left nor the nationalist right was going to fix anything. From there it runs through the Free State Project, Honduras in the Paul Romer days, and how he ended up friends with the people who went on to start Próspera.
Then pop-up cities. Timothy went to Zuzalu once and came away unconvinced, but Petar makes the case. After that comes a clear explanation of this whole industry, the four layers, from what only nation states can do down to the individual company that just wants faster clinical trials.
Timothy is known for arguing that network states and bricks-and-mortar Free Cities have to meet in the middle, and Petar reframes it completely: the network state as a social coordination layer, a backup layer for the world, permissionless money and contracts and speech held outside the physical control of any government and downloaded to a location later. He calls it a cloud Hanseatic League, and then explains what that actually buys you.
Enjoy the conversation.
Timestamps:
0:00:00 - Coming up
0:00:52 - Start of conversation: not a straightforward story
0:01:34 - Do what you want, as long as you are not stopping anyone else
0:02:30 - Serbia after the 1990s
0:03:09 - Centre left, nationalist right, and looking for a third way
0:06:06 - Finding the Free State Project on the internet
0:06:22 - Honduras in the Paul Romer days
0:07:50 - Why he builds zones to help longevity
0:08:59 - Two months at Vitalia
0:09:45 - Zuzalu, and why pop-up cities felt wishy-washy
0:11:47 - Every conversation feels like the start of a startup
0:13:24 - Forty startups and another twenty million
0:14:31 - Are the big names actually invested in the idea?
0:17:31 - Is this the beginning of a massive change?
0:18:53 - Nobody can predict this
0:19:26 - One Próspera, or twenty thousand
0:21:35 - The layers
0:22:17 - Layer zero: what only nation states can do
0:24:12 - Do you have to start at the sovereign level?
0:25:06 - The government will shut you down
0:25:48 - What has changed in Próspera
0:28:16 - The hostile government, and the climate now
0:29:28 - Bitcoin District, and Orangeville
0:30:02 - Veritas Villages
0:30:37 - The different tribes in this movement
0:34:47 - Bringing together people who should know each other
0:37:34 - Patri, and the barrier to entry
0:41:17 - How important is the network state idea?
0:43:43 - A backup layer for the world
0:44:20 - Downloading it to a location later
0:44:37 - A cloud Hanseatic League
0:45:41 - Bargaining power for people who seek freedom
0:47:37 - Atlas Network, and the film they turned down
0:53:25 - Beating the socialists
0:57:31 - A slow industry
Guest: Petar Čekerevac - X | LinkedIn | Atlas Network | Libek
The Free Cities Podcast is the official podcast of the Free Cities Foundation, hosted by Timothy Allen. New episodes every Friday. Long-form, in-person conversations with the builders, investors, residents, and thinkers shaping the future of Free Cities, charter cities, special economic zones, network states, private cities, and governance innovation worldwide.
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