In this episode, Abi speaks with Ana Petkovska, who is currently leading the developer experience team at Nexthink. Ana takes us through her journey of leading a DevOps team that underwent multiple transformations. She explains how her team went from being a DevOps team to EngProd and eventually DevEx. Ana elaborates on her team's challenges and the reasons behind the shift in focus. She also shares how she discovered EngProd and used data from companies like Google to convince her company to invest in EngProd. Finally, Ana explains how DevEx came into the picture and changed how her team approaches and measures their work.Discussion points:(00:28) Creating and leading a DevOps team(05:04) Shifting from DevOps to EngProd(07:28) Inspiration from Google(10:05) Building the case for EngProd(13:42) Ratio of engineers to DevEx engineers(15:10) Team mission and charter(16:53) Learning about DevEx(20:05) The difference between EngProd and DevEx(22:32) Nexthink's focus todayMentions and links:Ana Petkovska on LinkedInEngineering Productivity @Google (Michael Bachman)